I thought since this thread about dreams and idols turned into a debate about Joyce Meyers and comments were made like she is “anything but a feel good preacher” and “the last thing Joyce Meyers teaches is feel good Christianity”,, I would chime in a post some resources from our groupblog concerning Meyers and her teachings here.
I mean come on,, how can anyone say Meyers does not teach a “feel good” gospel or Christianity? She is famous because of her TV show called “Enjoying Everyday Life”. How is that not equivalent to a feel good message? And yes I have watched many hours of her program and know the title of her show sums up most of the individual show topics. She has written around 70 books and almost all of them have “feel good” titles and topic matter that does not focus on theology or the Gospel of Jesus Christ at all – but rather basically how to “enjoy everyday life”. How is that not “feel good”? And these books are not put in the theology sections even in Christian books stores, they go to the self-help section. How does self-help not equate to feel good and a feel good message? And if you will look inside Meyers books you will see they are even categorized by the Library Of Congress as “Self Help”. How does this not relate to “feel good”?
The thread started with a pretty sincere post asking… Dreamer28 – “Is this Idolatry? Wanting to play the Piano, then Write, and Dance or Contortion? Would I be making myself into an Idol for this? Anyways, someone pls let me know, cause I like to do those things, it’s what keeps me from being bored, but sometimes I have a feeling that these things are of my own plans and not God’s, but then again, today I heard that any dream you have is a vision from God and that I should try to make it come true. It was in the Joel Osteen book. (I declare) and so does Joyce Meyers, she talks about following your dreams too. But I don’t know. I’ve probably asked this question, but I need more assurance about whether or not it’s ok. thanks.”
Then the following sentence in one comment changed the course of the discussion in the thread “Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyers do seem to have a feel good gospel which is real harmful since it paints a false picture of what a Christian life should look like. We will all face struggles and trials”.
That comment resulted in the following two comments.
Posted by Zeener – “I can tell you have never heard a full Joyce Meyer teaching series, and probably I’m guessing here, not even a single full hour of her teaching. Most people who accuse her of being a false teacher 1) don’t have any idea what she teaches because 2) they have not actually listened to her teachings, but perhaps heard rumors and just went with those instead – so they 3) accuse her of being “feel good” because they 4) see #1 and #2. The last thing Joyce Meyers teaches is feel good Christianity. Anyone who’s listened to her teachings knows she doesn’t teach feel good anything.”
AND,, Posted by HIS Geeky Girl – “And FTR I love Joyce Meyer as well. She’s got a huge amount of wisdom, she’s gritty and tell-it-like-it-is, and is ANYTHING but a “feel good” speaker/writer.”
It is my observation that the topic of the thread did not change all that much. It just transition from talking about Idolatry to showing that some are indeed guilty of making an Idol out of Meyers and are willing to go to great lengths of obfuscation to remain doing so. All over the world, people get very angry when you touch or talk about their Idols.
Here are some resources from our site concerning Meyers.
Firstly for any who might doubt (because many do) that Meyers is Word of Faith and teaches the WoF distinctive doctrines, here is Tim Martin from Watchman Fellowship to prove otherwise.
We have five teaching series on our groupblog refuting WoF teachers and teachings. And Tim produced the best one and it is done in a very irenic (peaceable) tone. And he is just so nice that it is really hard to accuse him of bashing to dismiss what he has to say. I wish I could make all Wofers and recovering WoFers watch this video series. It is that good and you can definitely tell from the content of the videos Tim is definitely not “misinformed”.
Here are some more resources focusing on Meyers and her WoF teachings. First up is a review of one of those “feel good” titled books that focuses on how to feel good and does not focus on Jesus, Theology or the Gospel.
And here is a an ex-WoF testimony from a couple who was “duped” by Meyers for years.
Did you notice above that Zeener tried to dismiss anything that is said about Meyers as pure uninformed ignorance on the part of those who might have something to say about Meyers and her feel good doctrine? Zeener more emphatically said the same thing again with this comment…
“How many of Joyce Meyers teachings have you heard from start to finish? I’m guessing…none to very few. Feel free to tell me I’m wrong. I’m really tired of people spreading their negative opinion about preachers as truth. Tell me, what exactly does Joyce teach that goes against biblical teaching? Got any real facts based on research or is this just another misinformed opinion?”
So for this post from our blog I will copy and paste the whole thing as it really tears into those who would try to accuse those who criticize Meyers and would dismiss them as ignorant and uninformed about Meyers and her teachings. Although this ex-Word of Faithers comments where originally written to someone named Bill, I bet the author would have said about the same thing to Zeener.
Bill, you say that Joyce Meyer doesn’t run a cult, otherwise you wouldn’t be in it. Let me say that the people who are in cults think the same way! Nobody likes to think that they have been deceived,. They want to think they are smart enough to know better. I assure you that if Joyce Meyer teaches the prosperity gospel or that Jesus went to hell so you wouldn’t have to (and she does!), then she IS running a cult, and if you are supporting her, then YOU ARE in a cult and you don’t even know it!
What’s more, there is probably nothing anyone here can say to you that will convince you otherwise, and I for one will not attempt to do so. All anyone here can do for you is speak the truth. It’s up to God and you from there. If God can’t take some of what we say here and get it through to you, then you cannot be reached sir.
A few years ago, I supported Joyce Meyer with everything I had. I regarded her as a true, down to earth, sincere, and prosperous role model. I hung on every word that came out of her mouth as if they were the words of God straight to me. I never missed a show, and if I did, I watched her internet broadcasts. When she held her conferences in my area, I went to see her in person. I would do as she said to prove my commitment to God and take vacation days and drive 3 hours to Tulsa to see her preach at the ORU campus and drive 3 hours back home, justifying myself to God by reminding Him of these sacrifices.
Talking about sacrifice, not only did I give up a day’s pay to see her, but it was nothing for me to sacrifice $100 or more into the white buckets they’d pass around as offering plates, knowing all along that I’d have to sacrifice again when I didn’t have that money to pay a bill with! That, in addition to the hundreds of dollars I’d send her through the mail every month! In the typical Word of Faith fashion, I would then go to God in “prayer” and tell Him what He had to do (you [God] MUST keep your word; you MUST provide ‘pressed down, shaken-together’ etc; if I delight myself in you, you MUST give me the desire of my heart, ad nausea!).
Bill, that’s NOT praying! When a WoF preacher “prays” by saying “we bind you Satan, we come against all the powers of darkness, we rebuke all poverty and lack” etc, they are NOT praying to God! They are talking to the devil and speaking as if they were God Himself. It is NOT prayer. But I digress.
I absolutely LOVED Joyce Meyer! But God had other plans for me. I was DEEP into the Word of Faith . It was all I had ever known all my life. My grandmother latched onto the seed faith teachings of Oral Roberts back when it first came out. She taught my mother in the ways of the WoF, and my mother in turn taught us the same way!
I grew up thanking God for being numbered among those who knew the “truth!” Needless to say, I naturally equated the WoF to be the one and only WILL OF GOD, and anyone who believed otherwise was deceived and damned to hell! That being the case, I grew up feeling at one with all the T.V. ministers. I loved them ALL! As a young boy, I read Copeland’s “The Laws of Prosperity” and I was determined to make those laws work … after all they are LAWS and even God must abide by them!
But taking an honest look back over the past 30 years, I had to admit that they never worked for me. I grew up into my 40’s all along thinking there was something wrong with me. I would actually look at a mustard seed in the spice rack and wonder why my faith was so much smaller that that and didn’t work. Then I would get depressed because my faith was so much tinier than that mustard seed that God wouldn’t honor it.
I felt rejected by God. Sometimes that feeling of rejection made me angry at Him and there were times I actually told Him that he was a liar! That He WAS a respecter of persons; that He showed favoritism, and that He didn’t love me, even though I was doing everything I knew to do to keep with “His” teachings as I was taught them!
All that being said, let me say this: there was nothing wrong with my faith, so don’t even try to tell me “oh ye of little faith!” I’ve heard that all my life and now I know better. My faith was fine, but the problem was that my faith was in a LIE! The “god” I was mad at was NOT the God of the Bible! The “god” of the Word of Faith is a demon straight from HELL! I know that now, but therein lies the danger in Word of Faith teachings. The people in that CULT don’t even know who the TRUE God really is, and are damned as a result!
Back to Joyce Meyer. I supported her “ministry” with ALL of my substance, and I thought she was truly God speaking straight to me. But the more I gave to her, the poorer I got (the story of my life)! It wasn’t until I got down to where I was about to LOSE MY HOUSE the Lord began to act on the anguish inside me. I remember back in 2005, watching Joyce on T.V. One day she was talking about how she had brought her parents to St Louis and bought them a house close to her. She said “I was just in the mood to buy houses!” I almost screamed at her “why don’t you buy MINE for me?”
I pleaded with God to speak to her heart to send me a check and prevent the impending disaster facing me. Then I would know that God really heard me and loved me enough to finally do something after 30 years of giving!
But of course Joyce never did do that, and since I thought she was close to God and had his attentive ear, that it must be that God wanted me to suffer all the more! I couldn’t understand it. I had donated to her (God’s?) ministry, I helped her build her headquarters building and all the furnishings in it. According to her plea for funds back then, I was promised that I would “own” one square foot for each $100 I gave towards it (I gave $300, so I “owned” 3 square feet).
Had God forgotten that ????? Now I was in desperate need, had NOBODY to beg from like she did, and I felt God didn’t care. I told Him He was cruel and mean! But I still loved Him because even then, if I had given up on my ONLY hope, then I REALLY had no hope at all. Even then, I felt that my breakthrough might still come, so I’d pick myself up and apologize to God for my ill will towards Him.
Then one day, as I was watching Joyce on T.V. it seemed like literally “scales” fell from my eyes! Near the end of the show, as she was begging for donations, and her announcer came on talking about all her books that we could have for a “gift” of X-dollars, and then talked about “seeing Joyce in person” and hearing “Joyce preach the word as only she can do.” God Himself spoke to my spirit in that still small voice and told me “this isn’t about God, this is about JOYCE!” “Joyce” this, and “Joyce” that! And all the dollar signs on the T.V. screen seemed to “stick-out” like sore thumbs, and the whole thing smacked of one big long INFOMERCIAL about Joyce Meyer!!
That, my friend, was the beginning of my exodus from the Word of Faith! Each time I saw her show, it got even more disgusting to me … and I stopped giving to her. S L O W L Y, by putting a stop to the hemorrhage of money flowing out of my bank account to these people, I was able to recover somewhat, and I never did lose my house. But it was close. That, my friend was GOD showing me that He really did care about my financial well-being. He didn’t want my money!!!!! And not only did He NOT want my money, I was NOT cursed with a curse if I KEPT it !!!! That is freedom!
About the same time, I just happened to stumble upon this website, Pulpit-Pimps.org, and God has used this site TREMENDOUSLY to teach me the truth about where I had been all my life and that the Lord loved me enough to lead me out of it into the truth!
Unbeknownst to me, my mother, who had raised me in the WoF, had been led out of their heresy about a year before I had! She never told me though. I asked her why, and she said that I would have thought she was backslidden and lost in heresy forever. And she was right. Some other members of my extended family are not convinced, and there is a definite divide – but even that is mentioned in the Bible. That’s why I say that nothing any of us say will EVER convince you of the truth. You will just think that we are deceived and damned to hell. If God doesn’t get through to you, then YOU are not reachable. It’s as simple as that!
I know this is a LONG post, but before I stop there is some more I want to say about the Word of Faith.
The salvation of Jesus Christ is NOT about all the things that the Lord gives to His people! And people who seek the Lord for what He can give them are seeking Him for all the WRONG reasons! A person cannot receive the salvation of Christ unless first he realizes that he is a wretched sinner who deserves HELL, not all of the worldly stuff you WoF people clamor after! It’s not about getting all the STUFF. It’s about giving up their lives for HIM and becoming His slaves. Somehow you Word of Faith people have gotten that all backwards. You think salvation is about getting, and getting more It’s just STUFF, material worldly stuff, it’s CARNAL and ungodly! You think that all your STUFF is proof that you are blessed. There is one thing that is promised for sure to all true followers of Christ and that is PERSECUTION!
You Word of Faithers only think of earthly “blessings”. But God does not promise us the things of this world. Think about it What would it profit you to gain the whole world and lose your own SOUL? Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar, Paula White, all of those hellish creatures on TBN – I can’t even name all of the pulpit pimps on TV (and maybe even your pastor too by the way) all of them have their reward. They have their “Best Life Now” But they can’t take any of it with them where they go
What about later on? The Bible speaks of the rich man and Lazarus. That kind of reminds me of the relationship between all these RICH pastors and their pimped followers. I believe they will suffer the same fate!
God does promise us SPIRITUAL prosperity, but you Word of Faith people only think on things of this world. When people like you give expecting your 100-fold return, you are giving to GET !!!! But the true Jesus tells us to give, expecting NOTHING in return. Do any of you honestly do that? Neither are we supposed to give out of NECESSITY or of COMPULSION … tell THAT to all of the pimp preachers on TV who incessantly compel us to give to their ministries ad nausea! It’s WRONG! If any of them really believed what they “preach” then all they really have to do is give and expect their 100-fold return and leave their audiences ALONE! But they won’t ever do that, because they really don’t believe what they preach either. Otherwise they would practice what they preach. YOU are profitable to them, and they fear that if they don’t ask YOU for it, YOU won’t give it to them. YOU are their cash cow, not GOD.
I am not attacking you, so don’t even go there. I am speaking from a life of experience. As I said, I was all bound up and hog-tied in all that Word of Faith crap for almost 30 YEARS!!! I gave, and I gave. I did all of the right things according to our famous PIMPS! It was nothing for me to fork over almost everything I had … tithes and offerings above and beyond what was expected, because I BELIEVED what the pimps said. I thought that I was doing what GOD wanted, and I suffered the consequences of that for far too long.
Like Joyce Meyer always says “give until it hurts!” — “give SACRIFICIALLY!” My intentions were good. And I had faith. But my faith was in a LIE! I was sincere and honest, but I was sincerely and honestly WRONG. I think that the Lord really knew that, and finally got through to me to just STOP IT! Like, HELL-OOOOO! If this thing still doesn’t work after nearly 30 years, guess what – IT DOESN’T WORK!!
I see myself all over all of you defenders of these people. I was just like ALL of you. And a couple of years ago, I would have been standing right there by your side. That’s why I say that ONLY THE LORD will ever get through to you. Nobody could have EVER gotten through to me so I know that.
I guess you can tell I am just a little bit angry about this lie that is continuously propagated by the deluge of televangelists spewing this prosperity vomit into living rooms across this country and bringing millions to hell with them. But maybe somehow the Lord can use my experience to help lead someone else out of this DELUSION you call faith. It is another gospel, and the “Jesus” you think you worship will someday be crystal clear to you. I just hope that you find out who it really is before it’s too late. REALLY! The Bible is the truth, and it contains the way to the real Jesus. This Word of Faith gospel is pure MADNESS !!!!!