Posted by: papagiorgio200 | November 7, 2010

7 Laws of Aplologetics

Apologetics 315 h/t:

1. The other guy doesn’t know as much as you think. 2. Everybody has faith. 3. A contradiction can never be true. 4. Never say “I don’t know” twice. 5. Verify everything. 6. Ask others for their reasons. 7. Never get angry

Posted by: Damon Whitsell | October 23, 2010

Joel Osteens pandering allows Joy Behar to infer that God is a Sinner

You have to listen to the last part to get this. About all I can say is that at least Joel did not outright endorse homosexuality.

H/T to Closing Stages

Rather than call police when their drinking partner fell — or was pushed — off a nearly 200-foot cliff, two students at a Redding Bible school tried first to reach the severely wounded man and pray him back to life, a lawsuit alleges.

In a lawsuit filed this month in Shasta County Superior Court exactly two years to the day after he was pulled by search-and-rescue crews from the banks of the Sacramento River, Jason Michael Carlsen alleges that when Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry students Sarah Elisabeth Koivumaki and Zachary Gudelunas couldn’t reach him to heal him with their prayers, they spent hours debating whether to call the police.

Bethel’s members purport to have the ability to heal people through prayer and bring the dead back to life.

The two later told police they thought Carlsen was killed in the fall.

Worried that they would be exiled from the church, the two Bethel students also went so far as to try to cover up evidence they’d even been at the top of the cliff, the lawsuit alleges.

“(The) defendants’ refusal to summon assistance was willful, malicious, morally outrageous and indefensible,” the lawsuit says.

Carlsen, now a 25-year-old paraplegic living in Petaluma, fell just a few yards south from where police say a Redding man died Tuesday morning after intentionally driving his SUV off the sheer earthen wall at the end of Palisades Drive.

When investigating Tuesday’s crash, Redding officials discovered a 10-foot tall cross sunk into the ground at the top of the cliff. Chris Carmona, a risk management official with the city attorney’s office, said the cross was at the exact location where Carlsen plummeted off the side on Oct. 5, 2008. The cross was taken down Wednesday by Redding employees, he said.

Carmona said he didn’t know who put it there.

No charges ever filed

In an e-mail, Koivumaki, 21, declined to be interviewed. Gudelunas, 27, didn’t respond to a message sent Thursday to his Facebook account. Koivumaki is a Canadian citizen from British Columbia who was in California on a temporary visa in 2008, according to Redding police. Gudelunas’ Facebook profile lists his current residence as Atlantic City, N.J.

After the fall, Carlsen spent more than a month in a coma at U.C. Davis Medical Center in Sacramento, his San Francisco attorney, Marc Libarle, said Wednesday.


This is really sad. In the 2 years I have been blogging on the Word of Faith Movement I have seen many people who let their children die by not seeking medical attention because to do so shows a lack of faith. Many have been prosecuted for this and some states are now making laws so that these parents cannot claim religious exemptions from prosecution.

An Ex-Word of Faith Pastor friend of mine suddenly lost his daughter to WoF teachings while in the middle of a sermon series on healing. Had she not been practicing WoF beliefs she could have been saved by sharing that she was having symptoms, but she had been taught that acknowledging sickness shows a lack of faith and is a bad confession . The indoctrination level and pressure to adhere to this false teaching is so great that my friend finished his sermon series on healing the day after he buried his daughter.

Our Groupblog Author Pappa Giorgio’s’ father died from cancer because he did not accept treatment for a highly treatable form of cancer until it was too late. So it can really be said that “Faith Kills”.

The last part is the part to hear. Please pray for this very smart and adorable young girl Sarah and others like her.


IMPORTANT NOTE FROM VIDEO MAKER: This video is NOT intended to EXPOSE any doctrines, teachings & practices of The Christian Research Institute, Hank Hanegraaff or “The Bible Answer Man” Broadcast as false. This video IS intended to EXPOSE the fact that no matter your age, gender or religion, following false doctrines, teachings & practices CAN & WILL eventually lead you to your spiritual as well as your physical death.

Posted by: Damon Whitsell | October 20, 2010

Clash of Doctrines by ClosingStages


dreamstime_3353890 When a man does terrible things he has to live with himself, but when a church leader does terrible things others have to live with what he has done. One such terrible indictment is false doctrine, or the lack of doctrine, infiltrating our churches today at such an alarming rate and has become so prevalent in our culture, truth has become a free for all. The “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27) is fragmented as church leaders strive to be relevant in our society rather than defending and proclaiming the faith. Deception prospers when preaching is patchy and the Gospel message is diminished. Many today go to great length to avoid publicizing the full truth of God’s Word being more occupied with making the church seem cool to unbelievers they can’t be bothered with whether or not their doctrine is wobbly.

The only infallible interpreter of what we see in nature or know innately in our own consciences is the explicit revelation of Scripture. Since Scripture is also the one place where we are given an infallible account of Christ, the Bible is the touchstone to which all truth-claims should be brought and by which all other truth must finally be measured.

– The Truth War/John MacArthur

The gospel has been cheapened today to the point where truth isn’t even on the back burner, it’s been taken completely off the stove and the majority don’t care so long as their “felt needs” are met. Sensationalism has so permeated the church that those who hear the Berean call are now suspect by the church. It is those who search the Scripture for truth and question the faulty teaching of church leadership who are pushed out. Church leadership has developed a ministerial immunity as they project all sorts of strange doctrine but lack in having any realism in the Scripture. One such example is Bill Johnson in an article he wrote called “Apostolic Teams” ( where he states, “There are major changes in the “wind” right now. For the last several years people have started to gather around fathers instead of doctrine.” In his view, doctrines only has a measure of success but is not proficient to bring unity. To Bill, unity of this nature is based upon uniformity, today, God is saying something new. Though Bill believes doctrine is divisive, good doctrine, sound doctrine is not the problem. When division in the Body of Christ occurs over doctrine, it’s not the fault of doctrine itself, it’s our perception of said doctrine. All that God wants to say and has said is discovered in Scripture, there is nothing new. It’s the “new and the fresh” revelations which are causing division, not doctrine.


by The Associated Press

Crystal Cathedral filed for bankruptcy on Monday in Southern California after months of trying to overcome mounting debt.

The megachurch, birthplace of the Hour of Power televangelist broadcast, announced its filing as it deals with a $55 million debt.

Church spokesman John Charles said the church owes about $7.5 million to a host of vendors for services such as advertising and providing the use of live animals for Easter and Christmas services.

The church was negotiating a payment plan with vendors but several chose to file lawsuits, the church said in a statement.

“We’ve always believed in a big God … a God Who is greater than any problem or challenge we could ever face,” Sheila Schuller Coleman, the Cathedral’s senior pastor, said in a statement. “Our announcement today to file for the protection of Chapter 11 is just one more chapter in the book that He is continuing to write.”


Hat Tip to Freedom From Wolves and Apprising Ministries

Prophetess Juanita Bynum & Dr. Cindy Trimm – Women on the Frontline (13)

It gets really good half way through!!!

It looks like they got enough money on them steps to get Juanita some new clothes and a hair-do, she sure needs it because she looks like she has been rode hard and put up wet.

Posted by: WoF Unveiled | October 15, 2010

Atonement Where? Part 4/4 – Moreno Dal Bello

This article originally appeared in Tricia Tillin’s intotruth

This article originally appeared in Tricia Tillin’s website, which is not longer available.  We give all credit to Moreno Dal Bello and Tricia Tillin for their scholarly work!

Atonement Where? (Part Four of Four)



Faith teachers are very protective of their teachings, for they believe them to be the very Word of God. They have even pronounced divine wrath upon anyone who dares to criticize them or who offers resistance to the ‘anointed’ Faith doctrines.

Kenneth Hagin once reported to his followers what he claims were God’s very words to him: “The judgment must begin in the house of God, and if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the sinner and the ungodly appear? If the Church won”t accept this ministry, then they won’t accept His Word and He can’t help them.” Hagin also warned that if a church should refuse to accept his ministry, God “would remove their candlestick.” 92 In an even more direct and fear inducing manner, Hagin, in his book I Believe, claims that, “The Lord said to me, ‘If I give you a message for an individual, a church, or a pastor and they don’t accept it, you will not be responsible. They will be responsible. There will be ministers who don’t accept it and will fall dead in the pulpit.'”

Hagin does not stop at threats, but lays claim in the same book that at least one minister has died in the pulpit two weeks from the day Hagin closed his final meeting in that church. Hagin alleges, “When I left that church I left crying. I told the pastor in the next church where I went to hold a meeting, ‘That man will fall dead in the pulpit.’ And just a very short time after that he did. Why? Because he didn’t accept the message that God gave me to give him from the Holy Spirit.” What other option does a Faith follower have other than to totally accept and embrace everything Hagin and his cohorts profess?

Is this what God is saying to the Church today? ‘Do and believe all that brother Hagin says or you will die.’ I hardly think so. This form of spiritual intimidation has long been a tool used by extreme cults and sects everywhere to ensure the faithfulness and support of their followers. It is also a trait which the Roman Catholic Church is not unfamiliar with.

Claims of infallibility have also been made by Faith leaders. Robert Tilton, for instance, is one man who believes he has written several books that carry, not merely his words, but those of the Holy Spirit. In his book Solving the Mystery of the Miracle Money, Tilton asserts, “The words in this book are not my words; they are the words of…the Holy Spirit…” In another of his ‘sacred writings’ entitled God’s Laws, Tilton claims that, “the Spirit of God is upon me the same way the Spirit of God was on the Lord Jesus Christ.”

Read More…

Posted by: WoF Unveiled | October 15, 2010

Atonement Where? Part 3/4 – Moreno Dal Bello

This article originally appeared in Tricia Tillin’s website, which is not longer available.  We give all credit to Moreno Dal Bello and Tricia Tillin for their scholarly work!

Atonement Where? (Part Three of Four)



Here is the picture as painted by the Faith movement thus far: The satanic nature entered Jesus at the point of spiritual death upon the cross. It was then that He literally became sin and was separated from God. The spiritual death of Jesus transformed Him from a man into a mortal and satanic creation. Kenneth Copeland ‘enlightens’ us, “See you have to realize that He (Jesus) died; you have to realize that He went into the pit of hell as a mortal man made sin. But He didn’t stay there, thank God. He was reborn in the pit of Hell and resurrected.” 54

Furthermore, we are told by Copeland that while in hell Christ’s “…emaciated, poured out, little, wormy spirit…” 55 was tortured by Satan and every demon in hell without legal right. The reason given by Copeland as to why Jesus could not be detained in hell is that Jesus was not an actual sinner but was only made sin as the result of the sins of others, plus the fact that Satan had forgotten this detail. Copeland says, “The Devil forgot to take into consideration that Jesus hadn’t sinned Himself but, rather, had merely become sin as a result of the sin of others.” 56 I don’t know how stupid Copeland thinks Satan is, but it is very difficult to perceive how the wisest of God’s creatures could simply forget such a truth. Where is the evidence to sustain all of this in Scripture anyway? Conveniently, what Copeland and others fail to find support for in the Bible is attributed to personal conversations with God or His Son, as has so often been the case with other espousers of ‘new truth’.

This apparently was the opening God had been awaiting. We are told that God spoke forth words of faith into hell, and as Copeland articulates:

“…that Word of the Living God went down into the pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the Devil had never seen before. He was literally being reborn before the Devil’s very eyes. He began to flex his spiritual muscles….Jesus was born again–the first born from the dead.” 57

This is nothing but sheer fantasy. Copeland twists the meaning of first born from the dead (Col. 1:18), from that of pre-eminence, to the false notion of Christ’s being born again. What possible need would Jesus, the sinless and Holy Son of the Holy God have to be born again? This teaching, perhaps more than others we have discussed, does away with the truth that Jesus is unchangeable, and strips Him of His eternal deity! (Heb. 13:8). This false teaching unveils Copeland’s ignorance and distinct lack of understanding of Biblical terminology, his total disregard for Bible scholars, the most eminent theologians and Church history. Not surprisingly, these sources are often ridiculed by Copeland and other Faith leaders.

The fable does not end here. Charles Capps teaches that the outcome of all this was the birth of the Church! Capps says, “Jesus was born again in the pit of hell. He was the firstborn, the first begotten, from the dead. He started the Church of the firstborn in the gates of hell… He went down to the gates and started His Church there….The Church started when Jesus was born again in the gates of hell.” 58 Not only was the Incarnate Almighty God, the Lord Jesus Christ born again in hell, but, according to Capps, the very Church of Christ can trace its roots to the gates of hell! This teaching is so preposterous that I will give only the briefest response by answering with the truth that the birth of the Church, as any Christian knows, began on the day of Pentecost as described in Acts 2.

Read More…

Posted by: WoF Unveiled | October 15, 2010

Atonement Where? Part 2/4 – Moreno Dal Bello

This article originally appeared in Tricia Tillin’s website, which is not longer available.  We give all credit to Moreno Dal Bello and Tricia Tillin for their scholarly work!

Atonement Where? (Part Two OF Four)



There are many Faith movement leaders, and a growing number of charismatics, who claim that Jesus Christ needed to die spiritually in order to complete our redemption. Kenneth Copeland is one who holds to this tenet, and the following statement made during a taped sermon will give the reader a clear insight into his thoughts on the matter. Copeland proclaims most vehemently that:

“The death of Jesus Christ was not a physical death alone. If it had been a physical death and a physical death only, Abel would have paid the price for the sins of mankind. He’s the first man that died because of honoring God in His Word….Every prophet that walked the face of the earth under the Abrahamic covenant could have paid the price if it were a physical death only.” 20

That Jesus died spiritually, is a key doctrine so vital to the Faith movement that many of its leaders have pronounced divine judgment on any who dare question it. Kenneth Copeland, in commenting on one minister who rigidly opposed the teaching, states, “That fellow is dead today. Now I said that to warn you. Don’t criticize people for preaching (Identification). If you don’t understand it, keep your mouth shut and pray.” 21 My suggestion is that you pray and study the Word of God with diligence to see if these things are so (Acts 17:11). The spiritualization of Jesus’ death strikes at the heart of the true Gospel, and must be seen for what it is, an heretical doctrine.

Both Copeland and Hagin are strong advocates of the spiritual death theory, as is evidenced by the following quotes. First, Kenneth Hagin states: “He (Jesus) tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner man went to hell in my place. Can’t you see that? Physical death wouldn’t remove your sins. He’s tasted death for every man. He’s talking about tasting spiritual death.” 22 By claiming that physical death would not remove our sins, Hagin is in conflict with everything that the Bible teaches concerning the blood atonement (Lev. 17:11; Heb. 9:22). Copeland agrees with his mentor: “Now it wasn’t the physical death on the cross that paid the price for sins, because if it had’ve been, any prophet of God that had died for the last couple of thousand years before that could’ve paid that price. It wasn’t the physical death. Anybody could do that.” 23

With such an abhorrent declaration, Copeland flies in the face of everything the Bible teaches concerning the death of our Lord, and also ignores what the Church has believed and taught on the death of Christ for nearly two thousand years. Not to mention the great cloud of witnesses in the Bible who attest to the fact that only Jesus’ spotless (sinless) sacrifice could have made our redemption possible (Acts 4:12; Acts 10:43; 1Tim. 2:5,6). Copeland’s blasphemous statement dispossesses the Lord Jesus of His unique role in history.

One of the reasons the Faith movement believes in a spiritual death of Jesus, is because of their view that all disease is of a spiritual origin, therefore, the method that God uses to heal must be spiritual as well. The conclusion arrived at is that the atonement had to be a spiritual and not a physical act. The concept of physical disease having a spiritual origin comes straight from the metaphysical cults.

Read More…

Posted by: WoF Unveiled | October 15, 2010

Atonement Where? Part 1/4 – Moreno Dal Bello

This article originally appeared in Tricia Tillin’s website, which is not longer available.  We give all credit to Moreno Dal Bello and Tricia Tillin for their scholarly work!

Atonement Where? (Part One of Four)


A Comprehensive Study of Word-Faith Doctrine

A biblical analysis of the disturbing claims put forward by the Faith Movement, which include the inefficiency of Christ’s blood, alone, to atone for the sins of Man; the need for Christ’s spiritual death, and that the redemption of Mankind was completed in Hell!

Error, indeed, is never set forth in its naked deformity, lest, being thus exposed, it should at once be detected. But it is craftily decked out in an attractive dress, so as, by its outward form, to make it appear to the inexperienced (ridiculous as the expression may seem) more true than truth itself. Irenaeus

The doctrines of the Faith movement which will be investigated in this publication would not normally deserve a response, were it not for the fact that multitudes of sincere people have fallen prey to, and unknowingly accepted, a false view of the events leading up to and including the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is to these people, primarily, I declare foremost, that the precious blood of Christ alone DID atone for our sins!!


The Faith movement had its beginnings in 1963 in Garland, Texas, at the home of Kenneth E. Hagin, where he had set up his own office from which he distributed his tapes and books for approximately three years. The origin of most of the Faith movement’s doctrines, however, have a much longer history, as will be borne out in a later chapter.

The Faith movement is also known by the titles ‘The Word movement’, and, ‘The Word of Faith movement’. It is sometimes referred to by it’s detractors as ‘The Faith-Formula movement’ and ‘The Hyper-Faith movement’. It’s acknowledged ‘father’ is Kenneth E. Hagin, also known as ‘dad Hagin’. Kenneth Copeland, reckoned by many in the movement as ‘God’s man of the hour’, is Hagin’s heir apparent. Other leading identities of the Faith movement are: Kenneth Hagin, Jr., Gloria Copeland, Fred Price, Jerry Savelle, Charles Capps, Norvel Hayes, John Osteen, Robert Tilton, Lester Sumrall, John Avanzini, Marilyn Hickey, Buddy Harrison and Morris Cerullo.

It may surprise those Christians who believe the Faith movement to be a by-product of the Charismatic movement, to learn that this is not the case. The Faith movement did not spring from either the Charismatic or Pentecostal movements, but their roots. In fact, it can be traced back to the metaphysical cults, specifically New Thought. Though many charismatics have warmly welcomed and adopted certain Faith practices and beliefs, it is interesting to note that some charismatics actually frown upon the Faith movement, and view the Hagin/Copeland gospel as a gross distortion of true Bible doctrine, and have opposed it, virtually, from it’s inception.

Many believe the Faith movement is a true moving of the Holy Spirit, simply because of numerous purported healings and supernatural occurrences for which it claims to be responsible. Experiences and results, as is increasingly the case, are what many people are forming their beliefs on, often at the expense of true Bible doctrine. What many fail to realize is the fact that every major religion produces ‘results’ and ‘experiences’. D.R. McConnell, author of the outstanding book, A Different Gospel: A Historical and Biblical Analysis of the Modern Faith Movement explains:

Read More…

Posted by: WoF Unveiled | October 14, 2010

How Did Kenneth Hagin Plagiarize E.W. Kenyon?

Originally appeared in Tricia Tillin’s website.  We give full credit to her for this scholarly work.

Plagiarism, Kenyon and the Word-of-Faith Movement

A few (8) samples of what is called ‘plagiarism’…

Kenneth Hagin apparently had no conscience about copying word for word
his “revelations” of the Word of Faith from Kenyon’s books, published some time earlier.

Kenyon’s own daughter, Ruth Kenyon Houseworth, easily recognizes her father’s message upon the lips of Faith leaders. She says:

“They’ve (Faith teachers) all copied from my dad. [E. W. Kenyon] They’ve changed it a little bit and added their own touch….but they couldn’t change the wording…These that are coming along now that have been in the ministry for just a few years and claiming that this is something that they are just starting, it makes you laugh a little bit. It’s very difficult for some people to be big enough to give credit to somebody else.” [ E.W. Kenyon, The Father and His Family, Lynnwood WA.: Kenyon’s Gospel Publishing Society, 1964, p.118.]

A man who, on occasion, ministered with Kenyon was one time friend John Kennington, pastor of Emmanuel Temple in Portland, Oregon. He has this to say concerning the plagiarism of Kenyon’s teachings:

“Today Kenyon’s teachings are in the ascendancy. Via the electronic church or in the printed page I readily recognize not only Kenyon’s concepts, but at times , I recognize pure plagiarism, for I can almost tell you book, chapter and page where the material is coming from. Kenyon has become the ‘father’ of the so-called ‘Faith’ movement.”

The original works are the rights of

E. W. Kenyon

Kenneth E. Hagin, Sr.

The twenty-second Psalm gives a The 22nd Psalm gives a
graphic picture of the crucifixion graphic picture of the crucifixion
of Jesus. It is more vivid than of Jesus-more vivid than
that of John, Matthew or Mark that of John, Matthew or Mark
who witnessed it. witnessed it.
But He says the strangest words, He utters the strange words
“But thou are holy.” “But thou are holy.”
What does that mean? What does that mean?
He is becoming sin. He is becoming sin. . . .
Can you hear those parched lips cry, His parched lips cry,
“I am a worm and no man.”? “I am a worm and no man.”
He is spiritually dead. The worm. He is spiritually dead-the worm.
Jesus had died of a ruptured heart. Jesus died of a ruptured heart.
When that happened, blood from all When it happened, blood from all
parts of the body poured in through parts of His body poured through
the rent, into the sack that the rent into the sack which
holds the heart. Then as the body holds the heart. As the body
cooled, the red corpuscles cooled, the red corpuscles
coagulated and rose to the coagulated and rose to the
top. The white serum settled top, the white serum settled
to the bottom. When that to the bottom When that
Roman soldier’s spear pierced the Roman spear pierced the
sack, water poured out first. Then sack, water poured out first, then
the coagulated blood oozed out, the coagulated blood oozed out,
rolled down His side onto the rolling down his side onto the
ground, and John bore witness of it. ground. John bore witness of it.
(What happened from the Cross to the
Throne [Seattle: Kenyon’s Gospel (“Christ our Substitute”, The Word
Publishing Society, 1969, 44-45]) of Faith [March 1975]), pp. 1,4,5,7)
At once you ask,
“What does identification mean?” What does identification mean?
It means our complete union with It means our complete union with
Him in His Substitutionary Sacrifice. Christ.
This gives us the key which This gives us the key which
unlocks the great teaching of unlocks the great teachings of
identification. identification.
Christ became one with us in sin Christ became one with us in sin
that we might become one with that we might become one with
Him in righteousness. Him in righteousness.
He became as we were to the end He became as we were to the end
that we might become as He is now. that we might become as He is now.
He died to make us live He died to make us live.
He became weak to make us strong He became weak to make us strong.
He suffered shame to give us glory. He suffered shame to give us glory.
He went to hell He went to hell
to take us to heaven. to take us to heaven.
He was condemned to justify us. He was condemned to justify us.
He was made sick that healing He was made sick that healing
might be ours. might be ours.
(Identification: A Romance in (“The Resurrection! What it Gives Us.”
Redemption [Seattle:Kenyon’s Gospel The Word Of Faith
Publishing Society, 1968], 6, 7) [April 1977], p.5)
The picture here is of Christ. . . Here is a picture of Christ in
in awful combat with the hosts of awful combat with the hosts of
darkness. It gives us a glimpse darkness. It gives us a glimpse
of the tremendous battle and victory of the tremendous victory He won
that Jesus won before He rose from before He rose from the dead.
the dead. The margin reads: The margin of King James reads,
“Having put off from Himself the “He put off from Himself the
principalities and powers.” principalities and the powers.”
It is evident that It is quite obvious and evident
the whole demon host, when they that whole demon hosts, when they
saw Jesus in their power simply had Jesus within their power
intended to swamp Him, overwhelm intended to swamp Him, to overwhelm
Him, and they held Him in fearful Him, and to hold Him in fearful
bondage until the cry came forth bondage. But the cry came forth
from the throne of God that Jesus from the throne of God that Jesus
had met the demands of justice; that had met the demands of Justice, that
the sin problem was settled the sin problem had been settled,
and man’s redemption was a fact. that man’s redemption was a fact.
When this cry reached the dark And when that cry reached the dark
regions, Jesus rose and hurled back regions, Jesus arose and threw back
the host of darkness, and met Satan the host of demons and met Satan
in awful combat. in awful combat.
God has made this investment for God has made this investment for
the benefit of the Church: the church.
He has made this deposit on which He has made this deposit on which
the Church has a right to draw for the church has a right to draw for
Her every need. her every need.
Oh, that our eyes were open; Oh that our eyes would open,
that our souls would dare rise that our souls would dare to rise
into the realm of the Omnipotence in the realm of the omnipotent
where the Name would mean to us where that name would mean to us
all that the Father has invested in it. all that God the Father intended
it to mean! In one sense,
This is practically an unexplored this is practically unexplored
tableland in Christian experience. table land in Christian experience.
(The Wonderful Name Of Jesus [Seattle: (“The Name Of Jesus: The More Excellent
Kenyon’s Gospel Publishing Society, Name”;The Word of Faith
1927], 8, 9, 11) [April 1976], pp. 4-6)
You must have seen as you have
studied this book that God’s method of physical
healing is spiritual. healing is spiritual.
It is not mental as Christian It is not mental as Christian
Science and Unity and other Science, Unity and other
metaphysical teachers claim. metaphysical teachers claim.
Neither is it physical as the Neither is it physical as the
medical world teaches. When man medical world teaches. When man
heals, he must either do it through heals, he must do it either through
the mind. . . or he does it through the mind or through the physical
the physical body. . . When God body. When God heals
heals He heals through the spirit. He heals through the human spirit,
We can understand that for God is a Spirit.
the greatest forces in life Life’s greatest forces
are spiritual forces. are spiritual forces.
Love and hate, fear and faith, Love and hate, faith and fear,
joy and grief, joy and peace,
are all of the spirit. are all of the spirit.
(Jesus the Healer [Seattle: (“Spirit, Soul, & Body; Part Three:
Kenyon’s Gospel Publishing God Heals through the Spirit of Man,”
Society, 1940], p. 90) Word of Faith [December 1977], p.5)
That is, there will be enmity The fact that there is enmity
between Satan and the woman. between Satan and the woman is seen
This is proved by woman’s history. through woman’s history. . . .
She has been bought and sold as She has been bought and sold as
common chattel. Only where Chris- common chattel. Only where Chris-
tianity has reached the hearts of tianity has reached the heart of
a country has woman ever received the country has woman
any treatment that would lift her been elevated
above the brute creation. above the brute creation.
and woman’s seed is Christ. Woman’s seed is Christ.
Christ was hunted from His babyhood Christ was hunted from His babyhood
by Satan’s seed until finally they by Satan’s seed until finally He
nailed him to the cross; and from was nailed to the cross. From
the resurrection of Jesus until the resurrection of Jesus until
this day, the church has been the this day, the church has been the
subject of the bitterest subject of the bitterest
persecution and enmity of the persecution and enmity of the
world. “He shall bruise thy world. “and it … shall bruise thy
head” – that is, the head of Satan. head” (the head of Satan).
In all Oriental languages the term In Oriental languages “bruising
“bruise the head” means breaking the head” means breaking
the lordship of a ruler. the lordship of a ruler.
“The heel” is the Church in its “The heel” is the Church in its
earth walk. The long ages of earth walk. . . .The long ages of
persecution of the Church by the persecution of the Church by the
seed of Satan are a seed of Satan are today merely a
matter of history. matter of history.
(The Bible in the Light of Our
Redemption [Seattle:Kenyon’s Gospel (“Incarnation,” Word of Faith
Publishing Society, 1969], p. 58) [December 1978], p. 4)
…in Gen. 18 God refused to Here is Genesis, God refused to
destroy Sodom and Gomorrah until He destroy Sodom and Gomorrah until He
had talked it over with His blood had talked it over with Abraham,
covenant friend, Abraham. Abraham’s His blood covenant friend. Abraham’s
prayer . . . is one of the most prayer is one of the most
illuminating and suggestive prayers suggestive and illuminating prayers
of the Old Testament … Abraham was of the Old Testament. Abraham was
taking his in the covenant. taking his in the covenant.
Abraham had through the Covenant Abraham had, through the covenant,
received rights and privileges received rights and privileges
that we little understand. which we very little understand.
The Covenant that Abraham had just The covenant Abraham had just
solemnized with Jehovah gave him a solemnized with Jehovah gave him a
legal standing with God. We legal standing with God…. we
hear him speak so plainly, hear him speaking so plainly…
“Shall not the judge of all the “Shall not the judge of all the
earth do right?” All through the earth do right?” All through the
Old Covenant we find men who Old Testament we find men who
understood and took their place understood and took their place
in the Covenant. in the covenant
Joshua could open the Jordan. Joshua could open the Jordan
He could command the. He could command the
sun, moon and stars to stand still sun, moon and stars to stand still
in the heavens. Elijah could bring in the heavens. Elijah could bring
fire out of heaven to consume the fire out of heaven to consume the
offering as well as the altar. altar as well as the sacrifice.
David’s mighty men were utterly David’s mighty men were utterly
shielded from death in their wars. shielded from death in time of war
They became supermen as long as they as long as they remembered the
remembered the covenant. covenant.
(The Two Kinds of Faith [Seattle: (Plead Your Case [Tulsa: Faith
Kenyon’s Gospel Publishing Society, Library, 1979]), pp. 4-9; cf.
1969], pp. 76-84) pp. 23-32)
Jesus gave us the first In John 1:4 we get the first
intimation of what this Life would intimation of what this life will
do for man. “In him was life; and do for us: “In him was life; and
the life was the light of men.” the life was the light of men.””
There are four Greek words There are four different Greek words
translated “life” … in the New translated “life” in the New
Testament. Testament. First, there is zoe.
The first one is psuche which means Then there is psuche. That means
natural, human life. The second is natural or human life. Bios means
bios which means manner of life…. manner of life.
The third is anastrophe which … And anastrophe means
means “a confused behavior.” confused behavior.
It is a strange thing that the Church It seems strange that the Church
has majored in “manner of life” or has majored in “manner of life” or
“behavior” rather than Eternal Life “behavior” rather than eternal life,
which determines in a very large way which determines in a very large way
the “manner of life.” the manner of life.
Receiving Eternal Life is the most Receiving eternal life is the most
miraculous incident or event in life. miraculous incident in life.
It is called conversion, the Often we call it conversion or the
New Birth and the New Creator. Some new birth. Some call
have called it “getting religion.” it “getting religion,” but that’s
not what it is really.
It is, in reality, God imparting It is, in reality, God imparting
His very Nature, Substance, and His very Nature, substance, and
Being to our human spirits. being to our human spirits.
(Two kinds of Life [Seattle: (The God Kind of Life [Tulsa:
Kenyon’s Gospel Publishing Society, Faith Library,
1971], pp. 2-3) 1981], pp. 1-2, 9)
Man is a spirit being, he has a soul Man is a spirit who possesses a soul
and he lives . . . in a body. and lives in a body….
He is in the same class as God. He is in the same class with God.
We know that God is a spirit We know that God is a Spirit.
and He became a man took on a And yet [He] took upon Himself a
man’s body, and when He did it man’s body….when God took
upon Himself human form,
He was no less God than He was He was no less God than when He
before He took the physical body… didn’t have a body.
Man, at death, leaves his physical Man, at physical death, leaves his
body and is no less man than body. Yet he is no less man than
he was when he had his … body. he was when he had his body.
(The Hidden Man [Seattle: Kenyon’s (Man of Three Dimensions [Tulsa:
Gospel Publishing Society, 1970], Faith Library, 1973], no page)
p.40; Two Kinds of Faith, p. 3)

This article originally appeared in Tricia Tillin’s website which has been recently shutdown.  We give full credit to Tricia Tillin, the original founder of the Banner Ministries for her scholarly work!

© 2003 Banner Ministries. All rights reserved. Cross+Word Website:  .

Posted by: Damon Whitsell | October 13, 2010

I Can’t, I Just Cannot – by RedeemedHippie

Please visit Sister Hippies blog HERE


A couple months back, I had the pleasure of having lunch with the young wife of the pastor where my husband goes to church. She told me she had a dream where I walked into church smiling. Knowing she meant well, I went easy on her. I told her, I can’t. I just can’t.

I can’t go to church anywhere where things are not being tested. I just can’t.

I can’t go where I see people bringing in the latest heresy books. And for what? To passively let the rest of us know what they are reading?

I doubt if I ever again will be able to worship in a typical church setting anywhere, knowing what I know: That the majority of worship leaders feel somehow it is their duty to manipulate the worshippers. I just can’t.

I can’t go anywhere where people would see “angel feathers” or “gold dust” as some great sign from heaven. I just can’t.

I can’t go where any preacher is afraid of confrontation. I just can’t.

Read More…

Hat-Tip and Good Eye to Pat.

Before you say Todd Bentley is not Word of Faith, you can see here that Bentley confesses to be “highly influenced by Kenneth Hagin”. Even saying Hagin’s gospel is the “full gospel”.

We have heard Bentley was returning to action. But now we find out Bentley’s return is prophetically predicted to be marked by “thunder and Lightening”.  And guess what? It came to pass! With a miraculous yet silent big bang.  So it is said by a site endorsing  the Reno Outpouring. Look at this freaky picture and read this from the website. (I suspect that it might get taken down).



Todd calls out Lightening


Lightning Last night Todd said that the Angel of the Lord was on stage for only the third time in three years.  As people were being healed Todd said that he saw lightning in the room.  As you know, Todd’s visit was preceded by a prophetic word that he would come with thunder and lightning as well as one of the biggest thunder and lightning storms we have seen lasting five days.  When Todd called out that he saw lightning again our Associate pastor/prophet Terry Spencer had just taken the photo to your right.  It’s time for everyone to get to the Reno Outpouring.  Get here however you can.


They claim this picture shows lightning over Todds head, but look at it again, and you can faintly see a Skull/Demon image in it. Now I’m not saying this is a real demon. When I was a kid my parents had a house built with custom paneling and when they stained the sheet panels there was a demon figure on one of them. And bad lighting and bad picture taking can produce all sorts of strange pictures.  But don’t you find it odd that they would not see the image in the picture. Don’t you find it odd that they would post this on their site. I mean after all, think about it, Todd says the Angel of the Lord is on stage with him. Don’t you find this picture very, very, very odd? OR, are you packing up your family and heading to Reno?

By GREG BLUESTEIN (AP) – 3 hours ago

ATLANTA — A fourth young male member of Bishop Eddie Long’s megachurch is suing the prominent pastor, claiming Long coerced him into a sexual relationship.

The lawsuit was filed by Spencer LeGrande, a member of New Birth Charlotte. New Birth Charlotte is a satellite church run by Long in Charlotte, N.C. The lawsuit said Long told LeGrande “I will be your dad” and invited the 17-year-old to journey to Kenya with him in July 2005. LeGrande said that Long gave him a sleeping pill on that trip and that the two engaged in sexual acts.

The Associated Press does not typically identify alleged victims of impropriety, but attorney B.J. Bernstein has said all four of the men who filed lawsuits consented to being identified publicly.

The lawsuit claims Long convinced LeGrande that “engaging in a sexual relationship was a healthy component of his spiritual life,” the complaint said.

LeGrande, now 22, said the two continued their relationship on a February 2006 trip to South Africa and after he moved to Atlanta at Long’s encouragement. He said that Long also instructed him not to have girlfriends, but that he pulled away in the spring of 2009 after he became “disillusioned.” He moved back to Charlotte in October, it said.

The complaint, filed in DeKalb State Court, comes after three other men filed lawsuits on Tuesday and Wednesday saying they were 17- and 18-year-old members of the church when they say Long abused his spiritual authority to seduce them with cars, money, clothes, jewelry, international trips and access to celebrities.

Long is expected on Sunday to deliver the first public message since the men accused him of having sexual relationships with them. He has vehemently denied any wrongdoing through his lawyer and a Twitter posting.

Bishop’s attorney, Craig Gillen, did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment Friday.

Posted by: Damon Whitsell | September 23, 2010

Bishop Eddie Long Sex Scandel And Crusade Against Homosexuals

Atlanta, Georgia (CNN) — As Bishop Eddie Long poked through a salad in his church office one summer day in 1999, he shot a weary look at a person ticking off his ministry’s successes.

His Atlanta megachurch had already reached 25,000 members. He had been invited to the White House, built a global television ministry and drove around town in a luxury automobile.

But Long told the visitor who had come to write about him that the pressures of being a high-profile pastor could be brutal.

“You don’t want any of this,” he said in a raspy baritone as he shook his head. “You don’t want any of this …”

Long didn’t get more specific about those pressures.

Today, the 57-year-old minister, known for his public crusades against homosexuality, faces serious allegations.

On Tuesday, two young men who were members of Long’s New Birth Missionary Baptist Church filed lawsuits claiming he used his position as their spiritual counselor to coerce them into sexual relationships.

See PDF of lawsuit filed by Maurice Robinson

The men — Anthony Flagg, 21, and Maurice Robinson, 20 — allege Long used a private spiritual ceremony to mark a “covenant” between them, with both becoming his “spiritual son.”

See PDF of lawsuit filed by Anthony Flagg

Flagg alleges that Long then used that relationship to take him on overnight trips where they shared a bedroom and engaged in kissing, masturbation and “oral sexual contact.”

Robinson, who claimed Long engaged in oral sex with him, said the pastor would cite Scripture to justify their relationship.

“We categorically deny the allegations,” Art Franklin, Long’s spokesman, said in a written statement. “It is very unfortunate that someone has taken this course of action.”

Franklin said “our law firm will be able to respond once attorneys have had an opportunity to review the lawsuit.”

The men’s lawyer, Brenda Joy (B.J.) Bernstein, would not make them available for comment.

Long’s crusades against homosexuality

The allegations against Long run contrary to his public image.


Posted by: Damon Whitsell | September 23, 2010

VIDEOS AND ARTICLE: Bishop Eddie Long 2010 Sex Scandel

Bishop Eddie Long scandal, divorce info: Pastor denies 2010 controversy (VIDEOS)Paula Mooney Christian TV Examiner

The Bishop Eddie Long scandal has rocked the Christian world, sending folks to Google with searches  for the following terms at the moment: Bishop Eddie Long scandal, Eddie Long, Bishop Eddie Long divorce, Bishop Eddie Long divorce 2010, Pastor Eddie Long.

Bishop Eddie Long New Birth website down in wake of sex lawsuit ( video)

And CNN is giving insight to some of those searcher’s questions, including Bishop Long’s divorce from his first wife:

“He built an intimate bond with many members of his church by talking about his private failings: his divorce from his first wife; being rejected by his father; and being fired from a job in corporate America,” writes CNN’s John Blake.

“We categorically deny the allegations,” Bishop Eddie Long has said about the scandal through his spokesman, Art Franklin.

Bishop Long is expected to mount a fierce counter-attack, but in the meantime, the lawyer for the men accusing the pastor of some pretty heinous crimes, and those videos are rising up’s most popular video list as folks find them:

Watch video of lawyer speaking about Bishop Eddie Long scandal, claiming oral sex took place…

See the rest of the article and videos here.

Some friends of mines journey out of the charismatic and WoF movements began with reading a book called “The Other Side of the River“. Here is a brief description of the book.

There is a major doctrinal movement sweeping through the Church. Billing itself as the “River,” it promises an incoming tide of blessing but leaves in its wake tsunami-like devastation. Marked by false prophecies, unbiblical manifestations and cult-like teachings and authority structure, this latest Christian fad has wooed a generation of unwary believers and led them into a substitute spirituality.

While the Word of God has been placed on the back burner, personal experience reigns supreme amid a host of unscriptural visions and ecstatic utterances that have paved the way for a radical departure from the apostolic Christianity of the early Church. In this deeply personal account, Kevin Reeves explores the inner workings of this worldwide phenomenon.

After my friends mentioned this book at least 7 or 8 times I decided to google the book and read the reviews of it online. And when I did I found the books website which contains some really good articles. This one is a testimony by the author of the book Kevin Reeves. I have not read the book but I assume that most all of this is covered in its pages, which my friends told me was an account of the author leaving the WoF and other heretical and cultic teachings in the Charismatic movement. I pray you will enjoy and will be blessed by reading this sizable and detailed testimony containing a descent amount of quality refutation of some of these teachings intertwined with the authors experiences and good advice.



“What agreement has the temple of God with idols?” (2 Corinthians 6:16)

About a year ago a friend of mine attended a Sunday morning church service in a Charismatic group noted for its exuberant worship, local involvement, and passionate children’s ministry. The pastor was a relatively new to the area, middle-age veteran whose outgoing personality and dynamic approach to ministry offered hope to the town’s spiritually lagging church system. During this one particular service, the pastor read the Acts 5 account of Ananias and Sapphira. Pausing, he looked out across the congregation and, according to my friend solemnly warned, “Don’t speak against what goes on in this church. If you do—you just be careful.”

The implication to my horrified friend was crystal clear. What went on in those services was of God. Coming against or questioning any incidents or manifestations was tantamount to provoking God. And God would deal with the malcontent as He had Ananias and Sapphira.

My friend, who is a solid believer in Christ, understandably left that church and has never returned.

I believe this minister’s heart is sincere, that he desires the best for his people, and that he is a true Christian. But his promotion of Benny Hinn, TBN, and his involvement with the current “River” movement via the Brownsville Revival have left the door wide open to the same kind of control and manipulation that have become a hallmark of the aforementioned “ministries”. Benny Hinn’s now-famous Denver crusade anathema against detractors, Vineyard and Toronto preachers’ invective toward “accusers of the brethren” and “pharisees”, pastor John Kilpatrick’s 1997 “prophecy” of destruction directed at Bible apologist Hank Hannegraaf, and the multi-faceted threats and insults leveled by “River” pastors at genuine, seeking believers amply demonstrate the dictator mentality that has come to pervade their ranks.

Discerning believers are rightly alarmed by the many dramatic departures from orthodox Christianity, heretical doctrines that have come from within the Church itself. And far too often, efforts on the part of these concerned Christians have been met with stonewalling, resistance, or outright condemnation from the shepherds that are supposed to be guarding the flock.

Despite my own horrendous exposure to false doctrine and the subsequent uphill battle I fought to correct it, I am still a Pentecostal Christian who believes in the validity of the gifts of the Spirit are for today. It was with tremendous heartache that I felt the need to exit a congregation “moved by every wind of doctrine”, and this only after more than a year of concerted action to address issues that I had finally realized were contrary to the Gospel itself. My twelve year attendance and six year standing as elder did nothing to effect change. On the contrary, my credibility suffered irreparable damage within my own congregation, I became the butt of insinuation and behind-the-scenes labeling, and my many concerns were eventually dismissed from the public arena. While I desired wholesale repentance, I was basically assured none was needed. Only after a year of pleading on my part was it even agreed to discuss these issues in an eldership forum, and then only two meetings were permitted before it was unceremoniously shut down. After the first meeting’s video presentation that I gave of Toronto-style animal manifestations, spiritual drunkenness (which included men falling on top of women and all manner of carnal indecency), and a host of bizarre, unbiblical manifestations attributed to the “anointing”, it was basically decided (by everyone but my wife and I) that, because all of us had experienced some of the same manifestations at one time or another, it must have been from God. In fact, one of the leadership present even suggested that, although the video itself “made my skin crawl”, he could see that animal manifestations done “decently and in order” could conceivably be from God.

Read More…

A Closer Look at the Teachings of Joyce Meyer by Ken Jacobson


A neighbor of mine mentioned the famous televangelist Joyce Meyer to me one day and suggested that I read one of Meyer’s books. So I read the one she had just read: Managing Your Emotions: Instead of Your Emotions Managing You, published in 2002, a book that is representative of the “self-help” books Meyer sells by the millions.

Early in her book Meyer warns;

“There is a lot of spiritual ‘junk’ being offered today, and some of it sounds so good and feels so right. Make sure what you are following is in line with the Word of God and is initiated by His Holy Spirit.” p 81

Are Joyce Meyer’s teachings “in line with the Word of God”?

Let’s take a look…

Chapter 1


Meyer sets the tone early in her book by making it clear just where she stands in relation to her readers: “My husband and I have a fabulous life” she writes on page 59, “Many times things are so wonderful for us I feel like a fairy princess.” “Here I am traveling all over the world,” she continues, “people are coming to hear me speak, I’m on radio and television, and God is opening doors to me everywhere I go – I am so blessed!”

And her readers? Meyer, equating herself with Abraham, goes on to tell her readers, “God will bless you too – if you will walk in His ways and trust him to be your recompense, your very great reward, your vindicator.”

“Each of us,” she explains, “can be as blessed as Abraham was, if we will be as faithful and obedient as he was.”

Meyer’s book is chocked full of these “if”s, hurdles her followers must jump before they can hope to approach her “fabulous life”: “If we are willing to control our emotions, God will bless us.” “…if we are being obedient to the Word and will of God and are being led by His Holy Spirit, we have nothing to fear from our enemies.” “If we do things God’s way, we will experience God’s victory.” “Unless we are obedient to God’s Word, the Word will have no effect on us.”

Her list of “ifs” and “unless we”s is almost endless, and the message is clear enough: Meyer is so “blessed” because she, like Abraham, is “faithful and obedient.” You’re not there yet.

The enormity of Meyer’s error here is hard to over-emphasize.

Meyer explains that she is “so blessed” in the context of Genesis 15, where God says to Abraham, “Fear not, Abram, I am your shield, your very great reward.” Meyer continues, “In this passage we see that the Lord came to Abraham and promised that if he would be faithful and obedient to Him, he Himself would be his great recompense and reward.”

To start, Meyer ignores the simple fact that in the story of Abraham, there are no “ifs”. Nothing that God promises to Abraham is conditional on Abraham’s behavior, all is an unearned gift from God’s grace. Yet Meyer asserts, “God told Abraham that if he would obey Him, God would bless those who blessed him and curse those who cursed him.” It actually says nothing of the kind. It simply says “Go” … “and I will make of you a great nation. … I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse.” There is no “if”. When God says to Abraham “Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great,” there is no “if you will walk in His ways” as Meyer claims –there is no “if” at all. Meyer has misrepresented what the story actually says, rejecting God’s grace and replacing it with her own conditionalities, while presenting herself in her book as admirably fulfilling them.

To the followers of televangelists, who have been taught a perverted concept of faith, this may seem insignificant, but it represents the difference between the useless self-righteousness that Meyer teaches and the righteousness that comes by faith in Christ that the Bible teaches.

Read More…

Posted by: Damon Whitsell | August 31, 2010

Ex-Word of Faith Testimony of a Joyce Meyers Follower

testimony power of

HAT/TIP to EndTimesPropheticWords

Testimony left at Pulpit Pimps here

Bill, you say that Joyce Meyer doesn’t run a cult, otherwise you wouldn’t be in it. Let me say that the people who are in cults think the same way! Nobody likes to think that they have been deceived,. They want to think they are smart enough to know better. I assure you that if Joyce Meyer teaches the prosperity gospel or that Jesus went to hell so you wouldn’t have to (and she does!), then she IS running a cult, and if you are supporting her, then YOU ARE in a cult and you don’t even know it!

What’s more, there is probably nothing anyone here can say to you that will convince you otherwise, and I for one will not attempt to do so. All anyone here can do for you is speak the truth. It’s up to God and you from there. If God can’t take some of what we say here and get it through to you, then you cannot be reached sir.

A few years ago, I supported Joyce Meyer with everything I had. I regarded her as a true, down to earth, sincere, and prosperous role model. I hung on every word that came out of her mouth as if they were the words of God straight to me. I never missed a show, and if I did, I watched her internet broadcasts. When she held her conferences in my area, I went to see her in person. I would do as she said to prove my commitment to God and take vacation days and drive 3 hours to Tulsa to see her preach at the ORU campus and drive 3 hours back home, justifying myself to God by reminding Him of these sacrifices.

Talking about sacrifice, not only did I give up a day’s pay to see her, but it was nothing for me to sacrifice $100 or more into the white buckets they’d pass around as offering plates, knowing all along that I’d have to sacrifice again when I didn’t have that money to pay a bill with! That, in addition to the hundreds of dollars I’d send her through the mail every month! In the typical Word of Faith fashion, I would then go to God in “prayer” and tell Him what He had to do (you [God] MUST keep your word; you MUST provide ‘pressed down, shaken-together’ etc; if I delight myself in you, you MUST give me the desire of my heart, ad nausea!).

Bill, that’s NOT praying! When a WoF preacher “prays” by saying “we bind you Satan, we come against all the powers of darkness, we rebuke all poverty and lack” etc, they are NOT praying to God! They are talking to the devil and speaking as if they were God Himself. It is NOT prayer. But I digress.

I absolutely LOVED Joyce Meyer! But God had other plans for me. I was DEEP into the Word of Faith . It was all I had ever known all my life. My grandmother latched onto the seed faith teachings of Oral Roberts back when it first came out. She taught my mother in the ways of the WoF, and my mother in turn taught us the same way!

Read More…

Posted by: TWotWoF VIDEO ROW | August 18, 2010

VIDEO SERIES: How a Good Church Becomes a Cult by Jerry Kaifetz


How does a good church become a cult? When does a pastor overstep his authority? How to recognize a toxic faith system that preys on emotionally dependent church members.

Posted by: TWotWoF RADIO | August 15, 2010

AUDIO SERMON: The Errors of Positive Confession by Walter Martin

I noticed today that this sermon had been removed from YouTube (it used to be on a post on this blog). So i did some googeling and found this mp3 at

There is more than 100 Walter martin mp3 for download there.

Just right click and ‘save as”, then play in your media player.

Walter Martin - Errors of Positive Confession - 1 of 2.mp3

Walter Martin - Errors of Positive Confession - 2 of 2.mp3

Vatican says Benny Hinn and Paula White not Patrons of the Arts

When Benny Hinn made a statement to his followers in his August 5th broadcast that he had gone to Rome and had been made a Patron of the Arts it was inevitable someone would write the Vatican Museum program and ask.

Christian Research Services queried Fr. Mark Haydu, International Coordinator/Director of The Patrons of the Arts in the Vatican Museums. His response:

To my knowledge, Paula White or Benny Hinn were not invited to the Vatican Museums in any official context, nor did we find anyone on our donors database of Patrons under those names. [Original on file with CRS]

Haydu told Christian Research Services that thousands of people visit the Vatican yearly and he’d only be aware of Patrons and visitors to the Museums.

Benny Hinn was the one who told people on camera that was the Vatican department he dealt with. The full story is here, including Hinn and White’s original statements July 24th about their trip to Rome. You can watch the broadcast of Hinn saying he was made a Patron of the Arts here. This is what he said:

The Vatican did invite me a few days ago. They made me a Patron of the Arts in the Vatican two weeks ago. And that’s a fact! A Patron of the Arts means you support the Vatican so they can maintain all the work of Michelangelo. I’m one of the guys now that supports what they do. And that is a fact. I was there, and we were taken around by a man named Wilhelm Kramer [or Cramer]. And they asked me, literally they said, “Do you know people that can help us financially?” I said, “Alright.”

Now here’s where I made my mistake: I let her [Paula White] come with me to Rome, so she can donate money. That was stupid on my part.

It’s possible paperwork of the bestowing of Patron of the Arts to Hinn and White hasn’t caught up to Haydu, a lot of things are possible. Given the date of the Hinn/White Rome visit is publicly known, checking the visit would not be difficult for officials running the Museums. Or a curious researcher. Or The National Enquirer. Paula White supposedly told her congregation in Florida she was heading off on vacation during that time. (the broadcast is not online) After telling her congregation she was on vacation White then said in her July statement she was in Rome on ministry business.  Her congregation found out about the Rome trip like everyone else from US tabloid. This is what she said in her public statement:

Read More…

Posted by: TWotWoF VIDEO ROW | August 14, 2010

Free Video Bible Study Method Course by

Want to know how interpret the Bible Correctly?

Our groupblog author, Jeff Kluttz is an an excellent teacher. And he has things set up at his church to where he weekly records different teachings series and makes them available on his blog. Right now he is doing a series on The Gospel (can you imagine that,, a whole series on the blessed good news) and this teaching series on Interpreting The Bible which is essentially a free bible study method class. In the early 90’s I took a bible study method course at a local bible college and Jeffs teaching series is essentially the same thing.

I have enjoyed watching the series as Jeff releases a new video every week. As of the posting of this post, Jeff is up to week and video 8 and it looks like he will be doing several more weeks into this study. I have been waiting patently for him to finish so I could post them here and then I discovered a way I can go ahead and post them now. Instead of embeding the videos on this page, I will just give a link to the series page on So far the series includes these videos with more to come.

  • Interpreting the Bible Vlog Course Begins Today
  • Intrepreting The Bible Pt. 2 – Linguistic Principle
  • Intrepreting The Bible Pt. 3 – Historical/Cultural Principle
  • Interpreting the Bible Pt. 4 – the Contextual Principle
  • Bible Interpretation Pt. 05 – Contextual/Theological Principles
  • Interpreting the Bible Pt. 6 – Resources
  • Interpreting the Bible – Part 7 – The Golden Rule of Interpretation
  • Interpreting the Bible – Part 8 – Applying The Golden Rule of Interpretation

Here is the link to THE VIDEO SERIES PAGE

Cult or Christianity? World Changers promises financial blessings to the faithful, but many leave disillusioned by Rick Sherrell

After many of her family members joined World Changers Church International under the charismatic leadership of the Rev. Creflo A. Dollar Jr., Florence Duncan decided to give it a try. But what Duncan says she found was closer to a cult than to Christianity.

“It’s horrible, just absolutely horrible. My whole nuclear family is in this thing except me,” says Duncan, a devout Christian whose distress and exasperation over the situation is evident in her tone. “I’m the only odd man out.”

World Changers is one of the fastest-growing churches in the nation. Founded in an elementary school 11 years ago, the church is now forced to hire shuttle bus drivers and police officers to accommodate its Sunday services crowd. The church’s $7 million dome on Burdette Road in College Park is the largest church building in the Atlanta area.

Many of its 15,000 members, among them Duncan’s family, have been caught up in the promise of prosperity. And the promise of worldly riches says Duncan, a graduate of Atlanta Christian College who is working on her masters at Southern Christian University in Montgomery, Alabama, is “just Humanism dressed up in Christian clothes.”

The message of the “Prosperity Gospel,” which World Changers teaches, is simple: “You can be rich, healthy and trouble free. Jesus was rich and God wants you to be rich.” One look at the church’s facility, called the World Dome, is enough to convince you that it works — for somebody.

Sunday morning at the cavernous dome can be a moving experience. An army of ushers direct you to your seat in a state-of-the-art auditorium that is devoid of traditional church pews and instead, sports 8,000 plush theater-style seats. White collection buckets can be found alongside each aisle. The church’s bookstore is filled with books touting prosperity such as, “Confession Brings Possession,” and “How To Bring Home The Wealth.”

Read More…

Jeff VanVonderen is the coauthor of The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse and When God’s People Let You Down as well as several other books. He is a longtime participant in and supporter of the NACR. He has also recently accepted a position as the executive director of Spiritual Abuse Recovery Resources, a sister ministry of the NACR (

STEPS: Your book on spiritual abuse was published almost a decade ago. But it’s still in print. I guess the problem hasn’t gone away yet?

Jeff: The response to the book has not really diminished that much. Usually a book will be out there for a couple of years and then go out of print. But people keep finding The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse as if it’s a new book. The stories I hear from people haven’t gotten any nicer over the last decade either. The wounds caused by spiritual abuse are still very deep. And to be honest, I don’t see that much improvement in the system overall. I think it’s pretty clear that spiritual abuse is not some kind of fad.

STEPS: Nor is it something that you and [coauthor] Dave Johnson invented, is it?

Jeff: Not at all. What we did was to stumble across some language that worked for people. It’s a language that matches the feelings and wounds that many people have experienced. We give people a way to talk about this kind of thing. But spiritual abuse is certainly nothing new. Spiritual abuse has been here since biblical times. We just came across a way of talking about it in our time, and put it into a package that made sense to a lot of people.

STEPS: Talk some more about spiritual abuse in the Bible. What did it look like then?

Jeff: It looked essentially the same then as it does now. Spiritual leaders exploited people for their own gain. Authority was misused in order to get things done in the name of God that weren’t really about God at all. Jeremiah talked about those who heal other people’s wounds superficially. Their real wounds were not dealt with; they were just glossed over for the sake of external appearances. That’s part of the dynamics of spiritual abuse. I think that God’s big gripe with the leaders of Israel, if you look at Ezekiel and Isaiah and Jeremiah, was that they were not using the authority they had been given for the benefit of the weak, for those who didn’t have a voice. They were using their authority for their own purposes and for the sake of human kingdoms. The result in people’s lives then was the same as now: spiritual exhaustion rooted in misconceptions about who God is, about what God wants from us and about God’s stance toward us.

The New Testament gives essentially the same picture. There aren’t a lot of times when Jesus is harsh; Jesus is not known for harshness. But about spiritual abuse he was very harsh. For example, in Matthew 23 he not only describes the dynamics that were going on between the Pharisees and the people, but he also warns people about the Pharisees. He urges them to stay away from the Pharisees. He calls the Pharisees names. He paints pictures about them. For example, he talks about the Pharisees as “whitewashed tombs.” That might seem like merely a picture of hypocrisy—being one way on the outside and a different way on the inside. But there is more than that in this picture. People at that time believed that if you touched a tomb you would be defiled. So Jesus is not only calling the Pharisees hypocrites; he is saying that if you fall under their influence you could become defiled—spiritually affected in a negative way. “Ravenous wolves” is another picture Jesus drew of spiritually abusive leaders. He’s talking about leaders who devour instead of build up. It is very clear when the Bible talks about the purpose of authority that it is for building up, for encouraging and for setting people free. The pictures that Jesus drew paint a stark contrast between the abusive use of authority and appropriate uses of authority.

The abuse of authority was also a central concern for Paul. His main adversaries were the people who thought he was being too graceful. They felt a need to correct his teaching and to help people understand that the Good News is not just about what God has done but also about the things we need to do. They were called the circumcision party, because they added that particular religious behavior to Christ’s behavior as a means of securing God’s approval. This theme of “legalistic teachers” comes up all the time in Paul’s letters. He warns the church at Ephesus that the people who try to add to the Good News in this way will not only come from outside the Christian community but from inside the Christian community as well. So they have to be on their guard [Acts 20:29–31].

In the book of Titus, Paul provides a long list of the qualities desirable in a leader. But then he says that leaders need to take a proactive stance in terms of building people up in grace, and a defensive stance in terms of guarding the flock from people who try to destroy it—especially those who try to add some kind of religious requirements or behavioral demands on top of the grace of God. It is the people who say you need Jesus plus something else, that Paul is warning about.

The letter of Galatians is another example. It is a very angry letter. It’s all about the idea that God’s approval comes from Jesus plus something that you do. Paul attacks this view from every possible angle he can think of. Once again he calls the Jesus-Plus people bad names and wishes bad things will happen to them. Very early in the book of Galatians he asks the people to whom he is writing, “Where is the sense of blessing you once had?”

Most of the people I work with, when they first became Christians, it was very clear to them that it was not about performance. It was only about what God did. And this gracefull message gave them a sense of blessing. They felt restful. Even if that feeling didn’t last very long, their spiritual journey started in a very deeply grace-full, rest-full place. They knew they needed a gift and that God had provided just the gift they needed. But then what happens very quickly is that people get taught or led to measure themselves based on themselves instead of measuring themselves based on what Christ did. That leads rapidly to a loss of that sense of blessing, of rest, of grace. What happens is that people start trying to “measure up.” And that, of course, doesn’t work.

STEPS: It seems to me that grace-based faith has always had this kind of Achilles’ heel. Performance orientation sneaks in so easily, even in churches whose formal theology emphasizes grace. And things start to fall apart real quick when that happens.

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Evangelist Benny Hinn recently admitted at a crusade in Oakland, Calif., to having a “friendship” with fellow minister Paula White while he’s still married after a tabloid pictured them holding hands in Rome on July 13. But the well-known healing minister says the relationship is over.

“A friendship did develop,” Hinn said of White in Oakland on July 30. “Hear this: No immorality whatsoever. These people out there are making it sound like we had an affair. That’s a lie.”

Hinn invited his daughters Natasha and Eleasha on stage in Oakland and asked the crowd to pray for him, his estranged wife, Suzanne, and their four children. He said he and his wife had problems in their marriage for years and “could no longer exist in the same house.”

Hinn’s wife, Suzanne, filed for divorce in February after the couple had been separated for years, but it has not been finalized.

Hinn aired segments from the Oakland crusade and made additional personal comments on his This Is Your Day program on TBN Aug. 5, the day after his 31st wedding anniversary. A ministry executive said the program will air on other networks this week, including on Daystar Friday.

Hinn told the crowd in Oakland that the Vatican made him a Patron of the Arts and invited him to visit Rome. He said patrons are asked to find donors to help maintain the Vatican’s art collections, and he wanted White to become a donor.

Read More…

Benny Hinn says God Promises Unprecedented Prosperity for next 12 months

Benny Hinn has declared here in this email to supporters that the LORD God told him, “There will be a release of an anointing for the next 12 months that you have never seen before!” He writes:

“The response continues to be overwhelming as many of our partners and ministry friends lock into the promise of an unprecedented 12-month release of anointing and abundance and begin to see God move actively in their lives!”

Benny Hinn is saying that God has promised 12 months of UNPRECEDENTED ANOINTING AND ABUNDANCE.

He then goes on to talk about how God told him to give some money, and he decreed that this gift was going to release God’s miracle for him, and it happened. After giving a false and inaccurate teaching about Job He then appeals to you, dear reader, to do what he falsely claims the Bible teaches Job did so that you can cash in on your “unprecedented blessing” and presumably enjoy the “unprecedented anointed” for the next 12 months, mind you.

The idea behind all these kinds of messages of course is to extract money from his readers. We know that it takes money to spread the gospel. It also takes money to spread false teaching and false prophecy. The finer things of life also require money.

Now let’s be clear here. If the LORD did not in fact say these things to Benny Hinn, then Benny Hinn is a fraud. If Benny Hinn is just making this stuff up, then he is taking money from gullible people on false pretenses. If He is saying that God is making promises that God is NOT in fact making, then Benny Hinn is behaving as a greedy false prophet, who like Balaam, loves the wages of unrighteousness.

I’d personally be amazed if God really did speak to Benny Hinn these things, because Benny Hinn can’t even get a basic teaching straight. He probably knows his readers are too lazy to actually check out the Bible references he gives. Look at what Hinn says:

Read More…

Posted by: Damon Whitsell | August 12, 2010

JOEL OSTEEN: Bad news masquerading as good

good news bad newsSOURCE: After making a flippant but completely uninformed remark about Joel Osteen (with whom I had no familiarity except a short video clip), I was convicted that I ought not criticize things/people I know nothing about. After all, one of the charges against the false prophets in Second Peter is that they “speak evil of the things they do not understand”.

I rescinded my flippant remark and said I would look into Osteen more before making an evaluation. Thus, I traveled to my local library and picked up one of Osteen’s books–Become a Better You.

What I found shocked me and troubled me deeply. In some ways, Osteen is just another prosperity preacher of the Word of Faith tradition. He confuses the promises of the gospel with the idea of self-fulfillment and turns God into a vending-machine in the sky. The so-called prosperity gospel is a disturbing corruption of the true gospel–but I’ve known many who ascribe to a version of the prosperity gospel who still maintain at least a degree of faithfulness to the true gospel: that Jesus Christ died to pay the penalty for sins, on our behalf, thus reconciling us to God.

I see no evidence that Osteen has maintained any modicum of the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Instead, Osteen has replaced the gospel with an “I’m good, you’re good, we’re all good” self-esteem talk. He tells his readers that “God has already put in the talent, the creativity, the discipline, the wisdom, and the determination. It’s all in you.” “We have to believe that we have what it takes.” Over and over, he states that “God has placed the seeds of greatness inside of you”. He emphasizes the goodness of creation–but completely ignores the fall.

Read More…

Posted by: TWotWoF VIDEO ROW | August 12, 2010

VIDEO: T.D. Jakes: Pastor or Businessman?

T.D. Jakes is an author, writer, film producer, and pastor of a mega church right down the lane from Joel Osteen’s arena. The health and wealth message of Jakes is only the beginning of the problems associated with this fella. If you are interested in the sermon from Jakes, it’s called “dangerous deliverance Pt. 2. on itunes.

Posted by: TWotWoF VIDEO ROW | August 12, 2010

VIDEO: Should we speak out against false prophets and teachers?

Posted by: Damon Whitsell | August 12, 2010

WHO’S IN CHARGE by Closing Stages


Who’s In Charge?
We Are!

It seems as though we can’t turn on the television or radio without hearing about tragic events happening in the United States and around the world. At the same time, we hear people say, “God is in charge.” Others counter that claim with, “If God is in control, He sure has things in a mess!” What many people don’t understand is that God is not the one who is in control. In Second Corinthians 4:4, Satan is called ‘the god of this world,” and he is the one who is wreaking havoc around the globe.”[1]

The above quotation was the opening to an article called “Who’s In Charge? We Are!” produced by RHEMA Bible Church Inc. At first glance, it would appear to be biblically sound, it is candy coated that’s for sure. However, the very concept that “We are in charge” negates the Sovereignty of God as though Satan or we ourselves are one up on God. In the article mentioned above they spoke of Jesus Christ delegating His authority to the church by commissioning the church to preach the gospel. Nevertheless, delegated authority is not the same as the authority itself. Delegation of authority can be defined as subdivision and sub-allocation of powers to the subordinates in order to achieve effective results. In connection to the delegated authority is the responsibility to complete the assigned tasks given. Authority always flows from top to bottom where responsibility of such given authority flows from bottom to top. This is called accountability, and the subordinate is always answerable to the authority for the end result. Therefore, it is Christ who is both “in charge” and “in control,” and we are accountable to him as representatives of His name in this world.


Posted by: Damon Whitsell | August 12, 2010



Do you have discernment?  Have you ever tried to help someone see the light about their false doctrine?   Let’s pretend we’re playing a card game.  Let’s say you’re the one with discernment, and I will give you a card to show my displeasure and trump your politically incorrect statements.
Okay, let’s begin.


Television evangelist Benny Hinn has admitted that his marriage probably broke down because he did not spend enough time with the family.

On the August 5 edition of his show “This is your Day,” Hinn said he was oftentimes “caught up with the ministry,” so much so that he forgot about his family.

“I’ve made mistakes because I wasn’t the perfect husband and the perfect dad because I was always gone traveling the world,” he said. “That’s probably what broke the whole thing up.”

Hinn told his viewers “not to neglect your family,” saying that the call of God should first touch the family.

“If you have no family, you can’t go on anyways,” he said.

Hinn’s wife, Suzanne, filed divorce papers in California earlier this year, citing “irreconcilable differences.” The couple had been married since 1979 and have four children together.

On his recent show, watched by millions around the world, Hinn said it was often painful to talk about their separation.

“We’ve had to be very quiet to protect the ministry, the work of the Lord,” he said. “But sadly when you are a public person, everything you do becomes public.”

Hinn continued: “I don’t care if the anointing of God is on you. Nobody wants to be alone. I don’t care who you are. I am a human being just like you.”

The press recently linked Hinn to fellow televangelist Paula White, suggesting they were romantically involved.

Hinn rejected the claims and denied any wrongdoing, stating that the article published by the National Enquirer on July 23 was a “pure lie.”

Following the story, Hinn and White announced their decision to “have no further social relationship” until his divorce is finalized and “only if we feel direction from the Lord to do so.”


I seen the video and Benny admits the he and his wife had not lived together for years. And Paul and Jan crouch have not lived together for years,,, what’s up with all that. It that what big money ministry does to marriages?

Posted by: TWotWoF VIDEO ROW | August 11, 2010

Mark Driscoll Video Sermon: Suffering to Learn w/sermon notes

I posted this video yesterday, it is a small part of this video sermon by Driscoll. I really liked this sermon as Mark gives the best exegesis of 1Peter 3:17-20 I have ever heard. Also something that helped me is that Mark said it is important to determine when your suffering for sin and because of sin. You sometimes suffer for your own sin, but sometimes you suffer because of other sins towards you. That is a good one to remember.

This video would not embed into this post. So you’ll have to GO HERE to see the video that I highly suggest. There is a link on the video page to the sermon notes below.


TEXT: 1 Peter 3:17–22
PREACHER: Pastor Mark Driscoll
DATE: April 5, 2009

“For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God’s will, than for doing evil” –1 Peter 3:17


1 Peter 3: 18–20 is, according to Martin Luther, “More obscure than any other passage in the New Testament.” It is one of the most debated passages in the Bible; there are around 180 different interpretations.

  • All Scripture is equally inspired but not all Scripture is equally clear (2 Tim. 3:16 cf. 2 Pet. 3:16).
  • The doctrine of perspicuity: Those verses in the Bible that are unclear should be interpreted in light of the passages that are clear.
  • Lack of clarity in some passages requires us to be humble when approaching them.

Learn from Jesus’ Suffering (1 Peter 3:18a)

  • This is a mysterious passage of Scripture describing Jesus’ suffering; your suffering may be mysterious as well.
  • When you suffer, remember Jesus Christ.
  • Our greatest need is not the absence of suffering but the presence of God.
  • What are you learning about Jesus through suffering?

Learn from Jesus’ Death (1 Peter 3:18b–20)

  • On the cross, Jesus said, “It is finished.” There was nothing else to be done in regard to his work of salvation, therefore it was not necessary for Christ to descend into hell, as some interpreters have said of this passage.
  • On the cross, Jesus said, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (emphasis added), which appears to be further evidence against the idea that Christ descended into hell after his death.
  • “It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Hebrews 9:27). There is no second chance for repentance and faith after death.

Peter recalls Noah’s story in reference to Christian baptism (1 Peter 3:20).

  • The story of Noah (Genesis 6:5–14) is often twisted to say that because Noah was righteous, he received favor from God. The Bible, however, presents the opposite order: God’s favor (“grace”) precedes and enables Noah’s righteousness.
  • Along with his sons, Noah preached righteousness and built the Ark for 120 years. He was constantly mocked and nobody ever responded to his invitation for repentance. Christians suffer likewise in our day, awaiting the fulfillment of God’s promise.

Learn from Jesus’ Resurrection

  • Baptism symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection Jesus Christ.
  • Baptism is an outward demonstration of inward transformation.
  • Baptism shows a FACT (“the resurrection of Jesus Christ”) and FAITH (“a good conscience”).

Learn from Jesus’ Ascension

Remember who Jesus is, not just who he was. As a Christian…

  • You will die, as Jesus did.
  • Your body will go into the ground but your spirit will live, as Jesus’ did.
  • You will rise from death as Jesus did.
  • You will live in victory over the presence and power of sin with Jesus.

In the meantime…

  • You will suffer as Jesus did.
  • Your suffering will likely be as mysterious as Jesus’ suffering and as confusing as 1 Peter 3.
  • Don’t try and figure it all out.
  • Suffer well in faith like Noah did.

Gary says “Those who love to talk will experience the consequences,for the tongue can kill or nourish life – Proverbs18:21

Well I like the song,,, it’s a nice little diddy – but horrendous theology?

May God bless you Gary, that you don’t succumb to a slip of your own lip, or worse yet -someone elses. Jas 3:8  But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

Things are heating up around the Rich has done a great job of giving an insiders perspective to yet more trouble for KC. Insiders coming forward before have said that KC and KCM does not even open prayer mail. One Ex-word of faither that worked for KCM said that KCM was dominated by the dangerous Sheparding movement and spiritual covering  beliefs. And KC refuses to tell how his ministries money is spent. Now it looks like Vermillion has some information about the Copeland family that does not befit ministers of God.

GO HERE to read the last post at titled Kenneth and Gloria Copeland: The Untold Story

Previous post on this blog about Kenneth and Gloria Copeland by Rich Vermillion are HERE HERE and HERE


Here is a post I made at CARM.ORG to help quickly bring readers up to speed on what Vermillion has told us about KC and KCM so far.

I think almost everyone is missing the point of the OP. KC not flying HIS personal jets to Haiti is NOT the point – and that does NOT constitute fraud.

But KC is guilty of fraud because he deceived his “partners” and potential partners (lied to them for personal gain) into thinking that he had a cargo plane to fly supplies and would be taking donations to buy a “FLEET” of cargo planes to fly relief supplies in the event of a natural disasters. KC even said that “FLEET” would include helicopters. The Angel Flight 44 “aviation disaster relief FLEET” was the center piece of KC’s (for lack of a better term) sale pitches at his 06 believers convention (17, 000 in attendant). KC even used the AF44 sales pitch in three of his Believers Voice of Victory magazines. He recruited Vermillion to write a book about AF 44 and gave 70,000 books away (for a donation, of course) to “partners”. The book has it’s own website. And with the fact that the 06 believers convention was aired on DayStar, Millions heard KC’s AF44 sales pitch.

Now consider the 70,000 books that where given for donations. If each of the donating partners donated 20$, that adds up to over 1,250,000$. But KC has publicly said he has ONLY spent 65,000 sending supplies to Haiti. The 1.25 million figure is only from the Believers Voice of Victory solicitations. This would not include money taken in at the convention and through the convention airing on Daystar and donations taken through the books website. In all reality KC probably received 10’s of millions of dollars specifically donated for the AF44 aviation relief FLEET,,, but there is no “FLEET” and again KC has only spent 65,000 on Haiti.

Beachie will only respond with more histrionics, instead of looking at the very well documented evidence that Vermillion has gathered against KC in the Angel flight 44 debacle, but he and everyone else needs to at least read these 2 post by Vermillion,,,,
(see the videos here)…-44-the-money/

Beachie, Vermillion was a KCM PARTNER for 17 years, He is a Charismatic that holds the office of prophet. He worked with KC to develop the AF44 book. That makes his “personal experience with KC” more authentic and non partisan than your emotional and theological attachments. Vermillion bills his effort to get KC to repent as a minister to errant-minister” open rebuke”. For you to pull the “if he was a good “brother” he would not be finding fault with another brother” card is absurd. It is almost as absurd as you using the ‘well what has Vermillion done for Haiti” card. Vermillion was a partner of KCM and gave money to the AF44 campaign. But his donations where wasted and KC is no more than a crook hiding behind religious freedom. If it where not for religious exemptions, KC would already be in jail for this because it is obvious fraud and the evidence is clear. But I would not expect “died in the wool” WoF’ers to even fathom this because your religious tradition and belief would hang in the balance if you examined the evidence.

I finally sat down and wrote up a short testimony about why I blog here and am against the Word of Faith Movement. I intend to do a video testimony soon.


Hello, my name is Damon Whitsell. I would like to tell you why I am against the Word of Faith Movement. To do so I will have to share some of my life and experiences. I grew up with Mormons, Oneness Pentecostals and members of a small little cult called Bible Missionary in my family. And about 5 years ago I found out I have a distant relative who is a retired traveling WoF evangelist. Although not by the actions of this relative, I have been more drastically and negatively effected by the WoF than all the cults I just listed.

As you can imagine, there have been times in my life when I have clashed with some of the religious folks in my family. It was a tough time to go through when I was being proselytized to become a Mormon. Oddly enough, this only happened after I became a Christian and fortunately I had some friends that warned me that Mormons do not believe Christian things and are a cult. I rejected that notion at first because my relatives right out lied to me about what Mormonism teaches. But once they came forthright with their real beliefs and stopped trying to look Christian – it was easy for me to label them as a cult and not be very effected by my relatives and their religion. But it did cause me to be made out to be the bad guy for believing Mormonism is a cult. My own mother did not talk to me for two years when I told my relatives that they where in a cult and to quit sending Mormon Missionaries to my house. It made no difference to her that on almost every visit to my house the Missionaries claimed that all other churches where wrong and of Satan.

The Oneness Pentecostal relatives effected my dad so strongly that my dad was a very vocal atheist for most of his life. He used to openly make fun of my mother and brother and myself for believing in God. But as I got older that did not effect me anymore. My dads sisters where so strongly effected by the Oneness Pentecostals that they migrated to a little cult called bible missionary that is against the gifts of the Spirit and the anti-Trinitarianism of the UPC. But they are strongly influenced by the holiness movement and have no problems claiming that they have not sinned in decades and if you don’t stop sinning, your not a Christian and on your way to hell.

Read More…

Posted by: Damon Whitsell | August 9, 2010

VIDEO: Mark Driscoll answers the question Did Jesus Go To Hell?

This clip came from the sermon Suffering To Learn, part of Mars Hill Church’s Trial series through 1&2 Peter. For more content from this sermon, please visit…

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