THIS IS OUR COMMENT PAGE
ABSOLUTELY No comments which contain any Ad Hominem, (criticizing or attacking the person who proposed the argument (ie. personal attacks) will be allowed. All pages and post are set by the administrator to the default setting of “NO comments allowed“. Each groupblog Author may from time to time allow comments on his or her individual post. If so, we ask that you only comment directly regarding the points made in that post.
1. THIS IS NOT a place for people to advocate for the Word of faith Movement and it’s teachings. If you wish to advocate for the WoF. Please contact the plethora of the TV, radio and print ministries that already do this. ABSOLUTELY No comments which contain any Ad Hominem, (criticizing or attacking the person who proposed the argument (ie. personal attacks) will be allowed.
2. Just because you leave a comment does NOT mean that your comment will be approved and/or that it will get a response.
But it is not our intention to answer every comment, or to biblically reprove every comment that is made in defense of the Word of Faith Movement.
So therefore, if your pro-WoF comment is not approved, it is because it was decided that it was not appropriate to spend the time and energy to offer biblical reproof and refutation on the points contained within that comment because they where either deemed irrelevant or redundant and ALREADY ADDRESSED in the post made here on this blog.
If you have been negatively effected by the Word of Faith Movement, we have empathy with you and ask you to share your story with us and the rest of the world.
If you are a follower of the Word of Faith Movement and think it has been a positive influence on your life, we feel sorry for you but cannot sympathize,, so we ask you to please refer to rule Number 1.
In engaging in Word of Faith Exposure work, we have found the responses of Word of Faith (apologist) believers and Pastors to basically to take the same approach. WHAT EVER IT TAKES to divert attention or end the discussion,, is allowable. BUT NOT HERE.
No comments will be approved that take any of these approaches.
Your just being judgmental. Judge NOT least you be judged. Keep your eyes on Jesus. Can’t we all just get along. Touch not the Lords anointed. Your causing division in the body of Christ. Who are you to judge. What about all the good this teachings does. What about all the good things these teachers do. How do you expect to reach the world if you don’t ask for money. You don’t believe in the promises of God. You don’t believe in Miracles. That is not very Christian of you. Your putting God in a box. You not a very good Christian. Your not even really a Christian. What about unity. Didn’t Christ come to bring unity. You have a Jezebel Spirit. Your hindering the works of God. You don’t believe in faith. If the Word of Faith Movement was not from God,, it would not be prolific. What is wrong with wanting “Your Best Life NOW”, You’re just a heresy hunter. You are just a Sniper Christian. Your just a bloody Calvinist. Come not against the Man of God. We really like what your doing BUT. Your cause is Noble BUT. Your heaping judgment upon your head by judging. You don’t believe in prosperity. Your just jealous because you have not gotten your healing and financial blessings. Your just an old sour puss. What is your problem with God. You think God want us all to be in poverty. I myself was brought to a saving knowledge of Jesus as Lord in a similar type church. You don’t believe in the blessings of God. Your just casting hate nets. God works in mysterious ways. You have an antichrist Sprit. Didn’t Jesus tell us to just get along. Don’t throw stones, it is not very Christian like. God told me to tell you. I have a word of Knowledge from the Lord for you. Don’t make waves,, just ride them. Your just being difficult. Your not doing God any favors. But I was saved through one of these ministries and your denying the works of God. Your blaspheming the Holy Spirit. You’re a Modern day Pharisee. Why can‘t you be more loving. Stop being judgmental. We have seen and experienced the Miracles. We know all miracles are from God. Your not from God. Your just looking for something or someone to disapprove of. Your causing damage to the Body of Christ. Be advised NOT to come against God. God is doing a new thing and you are resisting him. God is against your religious Spirit. Your stuck in your religious tradition. We are not to judge. Why are you coming against this teacher of god. If it is not of God it will fail but if it is of God you can’t stop it. Jesus is more important than doctrine. Look at the fruit of these men. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. What goes around comes around. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Forgive and forget. Your ways are not the Lord’s ways. You cannot hope to understand God’s Divine Plan. You are not being a “team player”.
We list these post that will answer many of these thought terminating type responses.
The Thought-terminating Cliché (a Word of Faith article) The WoF Cone of Silence What are the Characteristics of Cults? by Josh McDowell and Don Stewart What is a (Pseudo/Christian) Cult? by Josh McDowell and Don Stewart Why talk about cults? by JesusIsLord.com Responding to Heresy: Five Biblical Principles for Confronting Heresy Exposing Doctrinal Errors: Heresy Hunting or Biblical Mandate? 8 Characteristics of a Counterfeit Christian Church Counterfeit Christianity Dr. Harry Ironside: The Value of Exposing Doctrinal Error The Word of Faith Movement and the Capture of the Mind The Loaded Language Of The Prophetic Movement: Loaded Language and Mind Control VIDEO
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Hi Damon,
Reply to Most Christians Infected With Prosperity Gospel:
The reason MANY Christians are “infected” is because it is a disease! Health does not spread and infect people but only disease spreads and infects people.
By: Refuting Rhema on May 15, 2010
at 9:30 pm
LOL This is so true.
I remember C. S. Lewis said that regeneration or being born again was the “good infection”. I bet he would not say that about the prosperity gospel.
By: Damon Whitsell on June 13, 2010
at 4:34 am
Where did Jesus Atone for our sins? By Paul Scozzafava ,article
If Christ “accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own spirit” and “He became one with the nature of Satan…” as Copeland and Hinn state, then wouldn’t that mean that there would be a redemption and salvation for Satan also???? If that’s the case then why aren’t they praying for Satan’s salvation? Just saying….BTW this is an excellent article, thank you for posting it I’m planning on using it. God Bless
By: hoot1926 on April 24, 2010
at 7:16 pm
That is a really good observation. I have never thought about it like that,, I’ll have to remember that. THANKS
By: Damon Whitsell on April 25, 2010
at 12:32 am
Hi Damon!
If 1 Sam 19:23-24 is not used as a proof text for WoF’s”slain in the Spirit,” I suppose it is less urgent to spend time thinking about how it might be.
As to Saul’s loss of bodily control, note in context that Saul had three times previously sent groups of soldiers to apprehend fleeing David (and at this point I think, to apprehend Samuel also). And three times previous, the three sets of soldiers has ceased their pursuit because the Spirit came on them so they prophesied.
In other words, what happened to the three sets of soldiers happened to Saul also. And the text adds of Saul, “He stripped off his robes” and “he lay there a day and a night.”
I suggest Saul’s temporary loss of bodily control from this, although loss of mental control or loss of self-control might be more apt. And if Saul temporarily lost control of his mind, he also lost control of his body to do what he had intended.
Of course, if the text had suggested the Spirit that fell on Saul had then also regenerated or converted him, one might argue that Saul’s cessation of the pursuit of David was in accord with his “new” will and self-control, but Saul’s actions subsequent to the prophecy event suggest the cessation was contrary to his desire and will. The Spirit fell on Saul to prevent him from killing David.
I suppose one could argue that the Spirit temporarily made Saul replace his murderous desire with a desire to prophesy and please God, but even that still seems more of a controlled and complete distraction than an alteration in Saul’s fundamental desire and will.
Am I hitting near the mark per your question? Or am I missing something obvious?
Peter
By: Peter on April 19, 2010
at 5:58 pm
Hello Peter, I am going to have to re-read the text and your comment to see if I can add anything to your commentary. My mind is drawing a blank right now.
By: Damon Whitsell on April 20, 2010
at 12:43 am
Hi Damon!
Thank you for your quick response. Unfortunately I don’t know enough about “slain in Spirit” views to know how WoF folks might take 1 Sam. 19:23-24. For all I know, they may agree with you that Saul’s out-of-control prophesying experience was not related to being “slain in the Spirit.”
From the little I have seen of WoF, it’s just that two similarities struck me: (1) the presence or claimed presence of the Spirit and (2) the loss of bodily control because of the Spirit.
Of course again, the text seems to make clear that Saul’s loss of control was a device the Spirit used to enable David to flee for his life, whereas I suspect typical WoF claims as to the causes and circumstances of “slaying” have nothing to do with similar contextual reasons. Presumably also, a difference between Saul and typical WoF’s “slain” stuff would be that the “slain” do not claim to prophecy in connection with the “slaying.”
I also do not know why the term “slain” is used. Perhaps it is taken superficially as a metaphor for falling down physically. Saul appears to have been prostrate too–OK, perhaps that is a third similarity which might lead to a question like, “Is 1 Sam 19:23-24 used as a proof text to buttress WoF’s “slain in the Spirit” doctrine and practice?”
Or is the “slaying” a metaphor like “dying to self” in identification with the death of Jesus?
Granted, I too am rather suspicious of which spirit does the “slaying,” and I mutter some reservation about “The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets” in the NIV’s slightly interpretive phrasing (1 Cor. 14:32). (I noticed that A.C. Thiselton’s commentary on 1 Cor. 14:32 agrees in principle with the NIV’s translation here.)
Does that help?
By: Peter on April 19, 2010
at 5:06 pm
Hi Peter,,, I read the text again and I fail to see where “(2) the loss of bodily control because of the Spirit.” took place. I was just reading another article about Slain in the Spirit and it listed all proof texts for the doctrine, and the 1 Samuel passage was not one of them. This is about the 4th or 5th article I have read that examined “ALL” of the proof text and none of them include 1 Samuel.
I don’t know who and and when the term “Slain in the Spirit” was coined. But I think your on to something with the metaphor of falling down usage. The people who do this slain in the spirit thing are way out of control. I too am very very leery. The fruit of the Spirit is self control.
By: Damon Whitsell on April 19, 2010
at 5:26 pm
Hi Damon!
Thank you for your comments about “Slain in the Spirit” as related to Satan entering Judas.
I am not part of WoF, but off the cuff wondered on the “Slain in the Spirit” topic what WoF folks and you might do with Saul’s being among the prophets for a day and a night when the Spirit came on him (thus protecting David from Saul’s jealous anger, 1 Samuel 19:23-24).
Peter
By: Peter on April 19, 2010
at 3:50 pm
Thank you for your comment Peter. BTW, I was real short of time when I approved your last message. Since re-reading it, I am in agreement with what you said. And that was a real good comment. Thanks for that one too.
I will have to look at the passage to see how it might correlate to being slain in the Spirit. I will respond when I have thought about it a bit. THANKS damon
By: Damon Whitsell on April 19, 2010
at 4:06 pm
Hello Peter, can you elaborate a little or state your question in another way. I read the chapter and fail to see how the power of God being on Saul is in anyway related to “slain in the Spirit”. THANKS
By: Damon Whitsell on April 19, 2010
at 4:22 pm
Hi, I’m hoot1926′s husband and just wanted to say Hi. I have searched the Word of God intently concerning WoF doctrine and the more I descover, the more seperated I find myself from the institutional church. I posted the following question on my facebook and would like your feedback, it is as follows. “I have a question. In John 13:27 at the last supper Satan entered Judas, he then went to get troops and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees to arrest Jesus. Since Judas was among them in the garden and most all charismatic’s teach that John 18:6 validates being Slain in the Spirit, does that mean that Satan was slain in the Spirit too?” I don’t really expect those on facebook to respond however, I would like your input. Thanks.
By: hoot1959 on April 17, 2010
at 2:17 am
Hello Mr Hoot,,, I have company over right now, but I will be happy to give my opinion later tonight or in the morning. Thanks for visiting and reaching out. I hope you and your family can find a real good church one day,, when ya’ll get ready. Good ones are hard to find.
By: Damon Whitsell on April 17, 2010
at 2:37 am
.
This isn’t a question that I think you will find much disagreement with here? I have never heard of that connection personally, but you have intrigued me, so I will add it to my list o’ stuff to check out. It seems like a logical consequence of that flawed theology… its almost comical – Satan getting slain in the Spirit. Benny Hinn must be sooo jealous.
.
By: papagiorgio200 on April 17, 2010
at 3:18 am
Wow I had one WoFer replied on Facebook, he said “Do you think that satan is immune to the power of God? Now come on, get real, now I have to think about my response, any idea’s?
By: hoot1959 on April 17, 2010
at 2:12 pm
Hello Mr Hoot,, as to your question,, I will need to do a little bit of study before I give you an answer. Its not an easy question for sure. I am going to the hospital to see my mother this morning and I will try to study up and give you a reasonable answer tonight. Maybe PappaG can come up with a good answer too.
WoF’ers tend to use thought terminating cliches. By answering with a rhetorical question (to which the answer is no, of course Satan is not immuned to the power of the Lord) the commenter has evaded having to think about your question in detail. I would respond like this.
“thanks for commenting, But you answered my question with a question (and a rhetorical one at that) and you fail to answer my question directly. Are you saying or implying that yes, Satan was “slain in the Spirit”,,, or not?”
If the commenter says yes,, then I would ask what are the implications and ramifications of Satan being slain in the Spirit,, as some charismatics are today. But for now just try to put the ball back in their court and get them to give a yes or no answer. It will cause them to think.
There is a real good video about “slain in the Spirit” on the home page of this blog. Here is the link. Give it a listen and I will try to answer your question with a yes or no and give some reasoning as to why I came to the conclusion that I did. (when I come to that conclusion LOL)
http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2010/02/24/great-video-slain-in-the-spirit-the-absolute-biblical-truth/
Thanks for visiting and commenting. I am glad to try to help you and your wife as much as I can.
By: Damon Whitsell on April 17, 2010
at 4:19 pm
Thanks, I did use your suggestion and I’m waiting his reply. I will wait for your further comment on this subject as I believe the Lord gave it to me to cause an awaking among those effected by these false manifestations. Hope your mother is well and or recovering, will keep her in my prayers!
By: hoot1959 on April 17, 2010
at 5:23 pm
Hi Mr. Hoot,, I wanted to let you know that I have thought about your question and looked at some commentaries and alternative translations. But I still need to do a little more study before I can give you a yes or no answer and explain myself. I will get that done today. Thanks for the prayers for my Mother. Have a blessed day. damon
By: Damon Whitsell on April 18, 2010
at 1:12 pm
Hello again brother,,, I have thought about your question and think my answer is NO.
Here is your question again,,, “I have a question. In John 13:27 at the last supper Satan entered Judas, he then went to get troops and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees to arrest Jesus. Since Judas was among them in the garden and most all charismatic’s teach that John 18:6 validates being Slain in the Spirit, does that mean that Satan was slain in the Spirit too?”
The reason I say NO is that “slain in the Spirit” is not a biblical term or occurrence. Rather the term is used to describe a phenomena that is unique to pentecostal/charismatics among Christians. But Slain in the Spirit is also practiced in eastern religions and the occult. The proof text that charismatics use to foster the doctrine (including John 18:6) do not show that what happened in the bible is what happens at say a Benny Hinn Crusade. Today “Slain in the Spirit” is associated with the anointing and is commonly thought of as “the power of god”. They call it a manifestation of God but they are really manifesting familiar Spirits. When some one “fell” in the bible,,, it was always out of fear and reverence of the presence of God or Angels. It was never something that someone did to another (as practiced today) but was rather a reflex to the Holiness of God.
I did but some thought into the question asked another way. Since Satan was in Judas and he fell on his face. Did Satan fall on his face? That depends on how literal you take “Satan entered into him” (John 13:27). The commentaries I looked at seemed to favor a literal possession of Judas by Satan.
Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground
It seems to me that NO Satan was not “slain in the Spirit” but he did literally possess Judas and even a Satan filled body cannot stand in the face of Jesus claiming the divine name “I AM”. I am sure that even Satan cannot stand in the face of the Glory of the Lord?
I had hoped to give a much more detailed response but this was all i could come up with. I hope it helps a little.
By: Damon Whitsell on April 19, 2010
at 5:46 am
.
Well Done. It is sorta like a trick question (e.g., “Have you stopped beating your wife?”)… although I doubt Hoot meant it that way.
.
By: papagiorgio200 on April 19, 2010
at 2:18 pm
Thanks Bro. Damon, I totally agree with your answer, I have had the battle on facebook over John 18:6 ending with me deleting some people from my friends list LOL. Oh well, I to have had some time to reflect, and yes papageorgio it was a little bit of a trick question, but a serious one in my mind. I believe what is cognitive with John 18:8 is John 10:17-18 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from my Father.” In my mind, this fits well with what happened in the garden. An entire army was unable to take Jesus by force. He went willingly. And thank God he did, where would be today. Thank you for your time, I know how little time any of us have. I will use the Question I present to other Wofers, in an attempt to get them to think, if that is possible. I don’t take the Word of God lightly, but it seems with most charsmatics, the experience supersedes the plain truth of Scripture. I was wondering if I could post your article on Slain in the Spirit on my blog site, I would title it with your name as the author. Let me know, it was a great article. And again, thank you!
By: hoot1959 on April 19, 2010
at 7:22 pm
LOL @ battle on facebook. Yeh contending for the faith is not easy. But take up a few comments to rebut and you will have to study and learn. It is a good thing for you and them.
Thank you brother Hoot. You can use my comments or articles anyway you wish.
And I have to say yes,, thank God that Jesus did willingly give his life for us. That is why I love Him. No one else I know died for damon
Thanks for visiting and asking your question. I enjoyed thinking about it.
By: Damon Whitsell on April 20, 2010
at 12:39 am
Hey , just wanted to say I love the video The BLACK HOLE of GREED, had found it on your site a weeks back and posted it on my facebook. Thanks. Blessings
By: hoot1926 on April 16, 2010
at 3:46 pm
Thanks you Hoot,,, Yeh I liked that one allot the first time I seen it too.
I hope all is well with you and yours
be blessed
damon
By: Damon Whitsell on April 16, 2010
at 4:03 pm
Received your blog by email. Very Good!
By: theweepingmother on April 14, 2010
at 1:45 pm
Thanks for your comment weepingmother. I will forward your comment to PappaG who wrote the post. I agree, It was a very good Article or sermon. I was really impressed with the quality myself. THANKS for visiting and commenting.
By: Damon Whitsell on April 14, 2010
at 3:07 pm
.
Thank you Weeping Mother… I have posted this exactly as I delivered it yesterday:
http://religiopoliticaltalk.blogspot.com/2010/04/moving-mountains-faith-in-faith-my.html
.
By: papagiorgio200 on April 17, 2010
at 3:24 am
WRT post http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2010/04/06/naming-names-of-false-teachers-is-that-biblical-or-loving/#respond
The NT authors do at times name opponent names as the above referenced post points out. At times the authors also refrain, as in Romans 16:17-18 cited at the end of the Macarthur You Tube video on the post.
Normally the difference between naming and not naming opponents seems to be in regards to level of antagonism. Generally, not naming is the more subdued. Naming is the more antagonistic or heightened, and the more personal.
But there comes a point at which the difference diminishes. In the case of Paul’s unnamed and no doubt well known leader-opponents at Corinth, the level of antagonism seemed to become high. Why some opponents of the truth remain anonymous while others are named in Scripture may be a bit mysterious to us around the edges, but judgment calls based on precise circumstances may be part of the answer.
For example, perhaps some opponents were named in order to give sufficiently specific warning, as apparently in Paul’s judgment was needed in the cases of Hymenaeus and Alexander, for Timothy’s edification.
Note also that Paul had subjected the two to ecclesiastical discipline by the time he warned Timothy about them by name. In Corinth, at least for a period, the bulk of the church seemed in danger of following arrogant leaders. Paul pled with the church on principial grounds, though he also described and in effect labeled his unnamed opponents in uncomplimentary terms (2 Cor. 10-12). Positive and negative teaching (if I can use that analogy) are weaved together.
A wise and good shepherd does not invite the animosity of wolves, but he does bear their animosity where necessary for the protection of his sheep.
By: Peter on April 12, 2010
at 6:46 pm
Hm. Perhaps I can make a few suggestions regarding resources on theology and apologetics. Unfortunately I have not checked elsewhere on your blog to see if some of these are already listed, but perhaps even then a reiteration here may be in order. Or you may disagree with some.
1) Kingdom of the Cults – Walter Martin (revised and updated by Hank Hanegraaf)
2) Christianity in Crisis – Hank Hanegraaf
3) Systematic Theology – Wayne Grudem
4) Ligonier Ministries – Various useful resources in theology and practice, apologetics (I think they are currently moving their book shipping headquarters.)
5) Vision Forum – Emphasis on homeschooling material, family-friendly teaching, creationism, principles of good government, American history
6) The Westminster Confession of Faith with useful Scripture citations – http://www.gracefallbrook.org/westminster_standards/The_Westminster_Confession_of_Faith.pdf One of the major confessions to come out of the Protestant Reformation. Once quite influential in the US.
7) http://mychristianapologetics.com/ – My former boss got a masters degree in apologetics from Biola U. and started this blog.
8) Exegetical Fallacies – D. A. Carson
Also worth noting, I think, is that the New Testament does not seem to make regular participation in a church an option (save perhaps for sickness or imprisonment or like problems). Of course, what the NT means by “church” would exclude corporate bodies that at root or overtly do not adhere to apostolic teaching and nowhere is it commanded that a Christian attend a particular church or kind of church.
By: Peter on April 6, 2010
at 3:30 pm
http://mkayla.wordpress.com/2010/04/03/new-age-new-thought-info/
Just to let you know I linked this article. It is very good! Thanks!
He is Risen!
By: mkayla on April 3, 2010
at 8:28 pm
Thanks for the link Sister. I really enjoyed that article also and I hope your readers are edified. God bless ya
By: Damon Whitsell on April 3, 2010
at 9:25 pm
Hey, while reading over your site, I read where you “seek to help others find the recovery resources they need”. We are in the recovery process, however, we realize that we need all the help we can get. We also have a few people that we are trying to share and recover with. So any info. or material that you could suggest or direct us to would be greatly appreciated. God Bless you for standing and sharing.
By: hoot1926 on March 30, 2010
at 12:27 am
Hello Hoot, Thanks for commenting here and on youtube, I hope you and yours will get the help ya’ll need.
There is almost 600 post on this blog about anything and everything WoF related,,, but it is not well organized. So the best way to use the blog is to click on the authors avatar in the right hand column and browse the post this way. This will list 35 post at a time by title only, by that author. It is a little bit better than getting to all the post through the home page.
If you don’t have the time to browse the website I would have to ask you this,,, what kind of recovery material are you looking for? The way I see it is there are two or three kinds of WoF recovery material. Those being doctrinal deprogramming and spiritual abuse recovery,,, and some ex-WoFers need some general references on dealing with suffering. If you let me know what kind of resources your looking for, I can find you the best ones on this blog.
here is some suggestions off the top of my head.
1. Go here and browse this category
http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/category/spiritual-abuse/
2. This is the best videos on the blog. It is long and very hard hitting, but I think it is the best video on the blog
http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2009/04/14/signs-and-wonders-movment-exposed/
3. On the bottom of the right hand column, there is a linklist for the best spiritual recovery sites I have found.
4. For deprogramming- Go here and check out groupblog author Pastor Jeff Kluts “Wolves in WooL” series.
http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/author/returningking/
5. Keep an eye out for a post I will be making soon that will give links to two of the best books on spiritual abuse, that happen to be free online.
Let me know specifically what kind of resources you need and I will dig up some more good references for you. It is a pleasure to help anyone whom the Lord is leading out of the WoF. Let me know
Damon
By: Damon Whitsell on March 30, 2010
at 1:49 am
Thanks for the information, much of what is posted on your site has been a tremendous help. Our dilemma seems to be that we have no real desire to start looking for a church. It’s not that we haven’t attempted at times, but 1. We live in a very rural area and there’s not a lot of selection 2. When we have visited it’s been difficult to get past our suspicions (and we realize that some of that lies at our door) and then some of our suspicions were well founded. 3. We did find one where the pastor preached just Bible (no add ons) but it just seemed like the congregation was content with just the basics ( again we realized our frustration it’s not that we need something MORE ( believe me we want just Bible), we just need to find somewhere to go where the things we now know are addressed, discussed and taught on): with the discoveries that we have made in the last several months concerning the deceptions such as WoF and others, we would really like to find a church where the leadership is privy to this kind deception and actually warns and teaches how not to be deceived, and teach how to discern and dig into the scriptures so that you won’t be lead down the wrong path. We don’t even know where to begin. We’re still trusting God and waiting, (I guess were also waiting for the WANT TO because right now we don’t want to.) any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. God Bless you
By: hoot1926 on April 3, 2010
at 2:19 am
Hoot,
Hi. If I can jump in here to encourage you, having been in a similar situation. The Lord knows your heart and your needs at this time. It is ok to be patient and wait for the right timing. Sometimes I wonder if this is not training, for the time may come when we will not be allowed to gather together or forced to do so in secret. It is something many of us consider during these “no church” times. We keep in mind that the Holy Spirit is our true teacher and guide. Many of us have found fellowship through blogging. I have found it a great place to learn and have made some true friendships. I still dissect nearly everything, but that is ok. It is something we should have been doing all along. I can’t say with any certainty what is right for you. I can say many of us have been there too and have come out. It is a process and its ok to say I don’t want to go to a church right now. You are free. Be at peace.
By: mkayla on April 3, 2010
at 8:39 pm
Hi Mkayla, Thanks for jumping in and offering your first hand experience and encouragement. I have to say it is full of wisdom.
Thanks
damon
By: Damon Whitsell on April 3, 2010
at 9:02 pm
mkayla
Thank you for the encouragement. We agree that the Holy Spirit is our true teacher, Our concern was the fact that we were deceived within the church walls, what were the chances that we wouldn’t be again outside the church structure with no one to bounce things off of. We agree with you about dissecting everything (and yes we should have been doing that all along). BTW we have visited your site several times in the past and have found it very helpful, thank you. We aren’t sure we will ever be sitting on a pew again, and that’s OK, although it has taken a long time to deprogram from “Sunday morning-Wednesday night” ritual. We are starting to realize that the changes that comes from having the deception revealed leaves you in a place of freedom and yet somehow as an awkward outsider too. But that choice is easy also, I’d rather be awkward on the outside than deceived on the inside. God Bless you and thanks again.
By: hoot1926 on April 4, 2010
at 11:34 am
Hi Hoot,,, Thanks for blessing us with your presence again.
From reading testimonies, reading ex-WoF websites and blogs, and interacting with ex-Wofers at CARM forums,, I have to say that it is common, almost universal, to go through a period of wondering if your really want to go to church at all. Most take some time off from church going and some never make it back to any church, I think this is unfortunate. A good church can help tremendously in our spiritual walk and growth. But bad ones can stunt us and leave a bad taste in our mouths. And its seems to me that there are way to many bad ones out there.
I have found that many ex-WoFers eventually go for reformed theology, Calvinism and Presbyterianism because it is God centered and not man centered.
To find a church that teaches truth and exposes error both,, well good luck on that one. I hate to say it but they are hard to come by. But if you go to a new church and ask around, you should be able to find out what they teach and don’t teach real quickly. And a golden rule is that if the pastor, church or group cannot handle someone asking questions, it is a good sign that it is not a good group to join. Study up on narcissistic personalities and cult leader dynamics. There is a few post here that will help with that. I will dig them up for you.
I suggest trying a mainline denomination. At least that way you know, somewhat, what your getting into and what doctrines they will teach. But even in mainline denominations there are bad pastors. A good rule of thumb is to stay away from congregations that are preacher centered and not Christ centered.
I’ll see if I can find a few post that will help you
thanks again for visiting and seeking the truth
damon
By: Damon Whitsell on April 3, 2010
at 9:23 pm
Hi Hoot,,, here is a few post you might want to see.
These three have checklist to use to spot abusive churches.
Is Your Church Free from Cultic Tendencies? A checklist for Responsible Christians
http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2009/04/20/is-your-church-free-from-cultic-tendencies/
Marks of Abusive Religious Groups: w/ Want to become a cult leader? VIDEO
http://how2becomeachristianinfoblog.com/2008/12/19/marks-of-abusive-religious-groups-w-want-to-become-a-cult-leader-video/
Understanding Spiritual Abuse: w/ TOXIC FAITH – Surviving SPIRITUAL Abuse VIDEO
http://how2becomeachristianinfoblog.com/2008/12/13/toxic-faith-surviving-spiritual-abuse-part-1/
I WILL ADD MORE TO THIS COMMENT POST AS I FIND THEM
Thanks
damon
By: Damon Whitsell on April 3, 2010
at 10:48 pm
Hey
Thanks so much for responding (mkayla too). We are actually not accustomed to having people respond to us, at least not with encouragement and assistance (sad isn’t it).Wanted to let you know that I have copied and pasted my comments and the responses from both of you to our facebook group, also your sites. We have discussed the idea of sitting down with a phone book and calling the area pastors with a list of questions on not only their doctrine, but who influences their personal lives, what books they read etc., not necessarily with the intent of finding a church, but at least developing a list of ones that we could possibly recommend to others to try out. We don’t know how that’s going to go but at least it’s worth a shot. Also appreciate the links on narcissistic personalities, we have been exposed to those types of leaders, and that, along with false doctrine has been a true recipe for disaster. As I mentioned in my comment to mkayla, concerning being on the outside, we are starting to realize that once you come out of deception like this, the status quo, even in a Bible based, God centered church won’t do, at least not for us. For far too long there has been no teaching and instruction on testing and trying the spirits, watching and guarding your minds and hearts so you’re not deceived, and the times we are in that is crucial and to quote you:
“To find a church that teaches truth and exposes error both, well good luck on that one. I hate to say it but they are hard to come by.” We agree, sad to say, and we have determined to wait on God, knowing that He is moving us forward and it is certainly unfamiliar territory (out of our comfort zone) and we are thankful for that. We have learned to appreciate and are, on some levels, actually starting to enjoy the discomfort. God Bless
By: hoot1926 on April 4, 2010
at 12:22 pm
Hi Hoot,, I know what you mean. I had a pretty good church before I moved about 8 months ago. I tried a couple of local churches and they seemed not to be right for me. So I quit looking and travel every few weeks to my old church.. We just signed a new lease here so I guess I will start looking again. But finding a church is just not priority for me right now. I was in an abusive charismatic group back in the early 90′s and I did not go to church for 5 years after they got through with me. You should feel free to take as much time as you need. After all,,,Recovery is something that never ends.
As far as finding a church that teaches truth and exposes error,,, I would take up apologetics, study false teachings. It’s interesting and can keep you grounded in the faith. I have Mormons, United Pentecostal, WoF and a little cult called bible missionary in my family. So studying their error has been a matter of survival for me. Studying false teachings and learning apologetics might help you too, if you do not find a church that does it for you.
But feel free to be free
God bless ya
damon
By: Damon Whitsell on April 5, 2010
at 1:23 am
Thanks for your words of encouragement and I agree that recovery is something that never ends.
Although I agree with your previous comment to me concerning where most people end up going to church (reformed theology, Calvinism and Presbyterianism), we already know that’s not something we could do. Calvinism yes, but not the others, to close to home for us. My spouse and I both had extreme experiences (bad ones) with Independent Baptist, early on in our individual spiritual walks. Those experiences were tragic and deceptive also.
Maybe that’s what caused us to go charsmatic, either way, we once again find ourselves in the same situtation it seems. Although we are much more grounded in our faith in Christ, because of it.
I do however have a few questions that possibly you could help me with. After getting out of this decpetion. We still believe in the gifts, God’s healing power, and of miraicles……although we are by no means “chasing after them.” but even though we know what the word of God says, we are so leary of anything to do with the gifts, miracles etc. even if they would be legitimate we’re pretty sure at this point in time we wouldn’t believe it. Any suggestions? We are trying to not swing back the other way to far (we’ve already been there done that) and are attempting to strike a balance within ourselves, lining up with the word of God. God bless you
By: hoot1926 on April 10, 2010
at 6:47 pm
Hello Again Hoot,, I will respond to this this evening after I have had time to think about it. Thanks again for visiting.
By: Damon Whitsell on April 10, 2010
at 7:28 pm
Hello Hoot, I am sorry for not getting back to you. My Mom is back in the hospital and it is looking like she might not make it this time. She has a bloodclot in her lungs and had a couple of minor strokes and a slew of other problems. I have not been able to put any thought into your delimia. I was going to suggest that you find a non denominational non charismatic church, but I remember you saying you lived in the booneys so that won’t be easy to do in your case. I found a really good church like I mentioned but it is about 40 miles away, they have a small bible school there and the pastor is a teacher at one of our local bible colleges (I live in Houston). It would be my church of choice if not so far away.
I hope and pray that things work out for you and your family.
be blessed
damon
By: Damon Whitsell on April 13, 2010
at 10:37 pm
Hi Brother, good to see you back here again!
By: redeemedhippiesplace on March 4, 2010
at 9:53 pm
Hi Hippie,, Good to see you also. I seen you took some time off but are back in the action. Good to see you back in the fight also. Thanks for the visit and comment. Be blessed
By: Damon Whitsell on March 4, 2010
at 9:57 pm
Rick, I appreciate your update on your condition. We never know what God will call us to, but in the journey of walking through the valley of the shadow of death, we find out who He truly is.
Good to hear your praise of our Lord in your circumstance.
Take care!
By: mkayla on February 25, 2010
at 10:51 pm
Thanks for your comment and visiting Mkayla. I will forward this message to Ricky. God bless ya sister.
By: Damon Whitsell on February 25, 2010
at 10:54 pm
Hi Damon,
Thank you for the blog. I appreciate anybody who is not afraid to take on cults. The last thing cults expect is for former members to fight them. Most of the time, people are so psychologically damaged are afraid of what the cult might do to them, they stay quiet. More blogs can help people understand it is okay to speak out. It also gives those who leave cults a place to go to.
I myself was a victim of a cult. There are a number of us who are fighting back to expose what happened. We have a blog called Missing Deerfield. I would appreciate if you posted our blog here: http://whathappenedtodeerfield.wordpress.com/
This will show that there are plenty people who love to use religion to take advantage of willing, caring individuals.
Keep up the good word!
By: The Corporate Executive on February 24, 2010
at 12:03 am
Hello, Thanks for visiting and leaving such a nice comment. I am all for helping people help themselves and others by speaking up. So I added ya’lls blog to our blogroll. Keep up the good work.
By: Damon Whitsell on February 24, 2010
at 12:57 am
Hi! I am a Calvinist. I can prove it: I wrote a book about Calvin’s teaching on eternal conscious torment against (John Stott’s) annihilationism.
Here is the link at amazon: ***link edited out by admin***
I am currently attending an armininan WOF Church. I want to try to say something intellegent and helpful. My back ground is the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals. People like Michel Horton ( he converted me to Calvinism) whio wrote the Agony of Deceit and other Cessationist ministries.
In 2001 I was diagnosed with blood cancer. I was healed through WOF preaching. The Bible is clear that faith gets prayer answered. It certainaly is proud to condemn those who are poor and sick but the Bible is clear that we are to pray and pray by faith. Faith is not in suffering and failure but success. 3 John 2 is HOLY WRIT.
God bless you.
In Christ Jesus,
Jim Cronfel
By: cronfel66 on February 2, 2010
at 10:58 pm
Thanks for your comment Jim.
I praise God for your cancer being in remission. That is great. But I know of three people who are not WoF (one is ex-WoF) but are also in remission from cancer. They where healed by the prayer of faith (James 5). There is no need for the WoF to get healed. Some WoF’ers like Daisy Osbourne where healed of cancer but later died of it.
GOD BLESS YOU and keep you healthy.
By: Damon Whitsell on February 2, 2010
at 11:34 pm
Thank you Damon for answering me!
One question I have is: How does your interpretation of Mark 11:23-24 differ from Kenneth Hagin’s teaching on it? Do you still believe that if you believe you can have what you say or do you believe that it is not to be taken literally? I have found many false cultic teachers within Cessationist camps. By the way, the cancer I had has never gone into remission in the history of medicine. I had three separate confirming doctors test me for it. I don’t know what you mean that WoF don’t need to get healed? They say that they don’t deny sickness. It seems to me the the only alternative to a literal interpretation of Mark 11:23-24 is simply doubt. It is natural for anyone who claims to assist someone miraculously with money and health would be suspect and that it would draw cults. But on the other hand the same Bible says that “all men have not faith.” I simply don’t know how to disagree with a literal interpretation of Mark 11:23-24 and Hagin seems to have it down correct–as hard of a teaching as it is. Your entire website seems to filled with experiences and testimonies of Mark 11:23-24 not comming true for you but none of you offer an exigetical reason why Hagin’s literal interpretation is wrong. While I believe in predestination I have learned to accept that God does not tempt (James 1). Elihu gives true glory to God: [Touching] the Almighty, we cannot find him out: [he is] excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict. (Job 37:33) Therefore, the devil “afflicted” Job not the Almighty. As I explain I have moved from staunch Reformed Cessationism into WoF but I don’t see any alternative on your website to Hagin’s interpretation other than doubt. If you offer me more than doubt and affliction by agreeing with you please explain where I am missing it.
Love, Jim Cronfel
By: cronfel66 on February 4, 2010
at 12:10 am
Hi Jim. When I said “There is no need for the WoF to get healed.” I meant that you do not need the WoF teachings to get healed. Healing is not a WoF distinctive. But a literal translation of Mark 11:23-24 is. Keep in mind that a literal translation of Mark 11:23-24 is also a Mind Science distinctive.
To me it is this easy. If you literally translate and apply Mark 11:23-24, you would expect literal results. No doubt about it.
Mar 11:23-24 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Please give me reason why this is not symbolic language. And prove it with examples of a literal mountain being moved (not cancer being healed).
If you desire God to overlook your sin,, he cannot do that. So it does no good to stand in faith to pray for such a thing. Likewise if someone pray to be divine, can God make the man a God? No,,, of course not. It is impossible for God to give anything we ask for.
Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Likewise it is impossible for us to do ALL things through Christ. Can we fly like a bird and dive in the sea like a whale?
We must rightly divide the Word of truth or we end up not being consistent with Logic or the Scripture.
Mar 11:23-24 should always be interpreted with 1 John 5:14-15
God Bless ya
damon
By: Damon Whitsell on February 4, 2010
at 12:43 am
here is a good article from this site on Mark 11: 23-24
http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2009/12/14/mark-1123-24-did-jesus-promise-to-give-literally-anything-we-ask-in-faith/
By: Damon Whitsell on February 4, 2010
at 12:51 am
.
I posted some info on this here:
http://religiopoliticaltalk.blogspot.com/2010/02/some-commentaryies-on-mark-1123-24.html
.
By: papagiorgio200 on February 4, 2010
at 3:57 am
Mark 11:23-24 was Christ speaking to the Disciples and was in relation to the building of His Church (Kingdom). This is not a verse to prove name it and claim it nor simply believe. Hagin was NOT a Biblical scholar, in fact he was wrong on almost everything he taught and DEAD wrong on the Gospel. As was his mentor Kenyon and Kenyon’s mentor FF. Bosworth and Horatio Dresser. Horrid teachings.
By: tlnaab on February 4, 2010
at 5:42 pm
Thank you all for your help! I am struggling with everything you say!
I want you to know that I don’t intend on defending WoF as a sociological movement or the ministries you all left in particular. Kenneth Hagin did not die for my sins. One of the things that I find missing in WoF is the doctrine of repentance. Repentance played an important role in my healing from blood cancer. But Calvin teaches that faith is the basis of repentance. It is the goodness not threats of God that lead us to repentance. We need to repent of our worldliness to receive miracles.
Still it is possible that Hagin confessed that he was healed prior to rising up out of paralysis. I don’t know what symbolic meaning would be behind Mark 11:23? In Romans 3 Justification is salvation from hell but it is also about how Arbraham gave birth to Isaac after being childless. A symbolic meaning for salvation does not contradict answered prayer prior to heaven.
After the Church was built it still needs to be sustained. Prosperity and health should never be the basis for faith. But faith and thankfulness should be the basis for prosperity and health more than human philosophy or fleshly works. Cessationists are opting for the flesh as the basis of prosperity and health. The truth is that worship of God should be the basis of money and health not works. But once prosperity and health are obtained it should not distract from God. The devil get us comming and going.
The Church I attend preaches against sin and illogical prayers and confessions and on the will of God. It also teaches that faith is in God and of God. Jesus was baptized, prayed, did what He saw His Father doing all by faith as the Son of Man. He was 100% human which means he had to excersize faith like us. While God sees Himself, He did not see the world before he spoke it into existence or Lazarus back from the dead before He raised him by speech.
Mind Science is Satans worldly mental copy of Mark 11:23, which is in the heart and it is about confessing Scripture. The Koran copies predestination from the New Testament. When you pray the prayer of faith in James you don’t say “I am not healed”. It is logical that you would believe that your prayer is answered to receive what you prayed for. We don’t confess that Jesus is NOT Lord in Romans 10:9 nor is it optional.
I come out of Evangelicalism and I know that it ignores all of the scriptures about Satan. I beleive in predstination but as I don’t believe I am predestined to hell and I agree with Hagin that faith says that the devil not God is afflicting the believer. Jesus says that the enemy planted the tares.
Thank you for your web page and your help. God bless you. I am going to pray for you all tonight.
In Christ Jesus,
Jim Cronfel
By: cronfel66 on February 5, 2010
at 12:51 am
Thanks for the kind words and prayers Jim.
I will re-read you post and respond when I get a chance.
Thanks for visiting
damon
By: Damon Whitsell on February 5, 2010
at 1:09 am
Hi Jim,, I have now read your comment three times and still have not been able to respond for a few reasons. I have been short on time but also your response jumped from one thing to the next,,,, and it will take me a long time to respond to all of it. And this comment section might not be a place to respond because it does not give me much room. Would you mind if we finished this conversation in e-mail?
Because you seem to be earnestly seeking,, i can send you an e-mail and I would love to try and help you.
Let me know.
damon
By: Damon Whitsell on February 7, 2010
at 8:08 pm
3 John 2 was written to Gaius…This is typical of Charismatic nonsense. Tanke one sentence from Scripture and make it personal.
maybe we should do the same with Php 2:19….where paul said “Php 2:19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.” Are you still waiting for Timothy to come?…Audience relevance is NECESSARY to interpret scripture.
By: tlnaab on February 4, 2010
at 5:47 pm
Thanks for your comments tlnaab.
It is a shame that the WoF takes a salutation by John, written to a specific person, and tries to turn that into a doctrine and personal promise from God for prosperity.
By: Damon Whitsell on February 4, 2010
at 7:10 pm
3 John 2 was written to Gaius…This is typical of Charismatic nonsense. Take one sentence from Scripture and make it personal.
maybe we should do the same with Php 2:19….where paul said “Php 2:19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.” Are you still waiting for Timothy to come?…Audience relevance is NECESSARY to interpret scripture.
By: tlnaab on February 4, 2010
at 5:47 pm
You have an awesome website. I wish I knew about you while writing my book, A Shepherd’s Trial: Feeding or Fleecing the Flock of God. We are definetly on the same mission of trying to expose falsehood while giving the people the truth as written in the Word of God. If you would like me to email you a copy of the book for review, you can contact me at d.voyles@live.com or get the book at the following link. Keep up the good work. http://www.strategicpublishinggroup.com/title/AShepherdsTrial-FeedingOfFleecingTheFlockOfGod.html
By: davidwvoyles on February 16, 2010
at 6:17 am
Thanks for the words of encouragement David. I would love a copy of your book to read and review but I am reading five books right now. I am not real good at following a book from beginning to end. I’ll contact you in a few weeks through your email. Thanks again for visiting and commenting. Damon
By: Damon Whitsell on February 21, 2010
at 11:29 pm
Happened across your blog again.
and I am reminded how I, like you, understand the dangers found in Word of Faith traditions. I think a very relative to true Christianity are the scriptures such as ‘true and undefiled religion before God is to visit the widows and orphans in their affliction’…and…’you know you have passed from death unto life is you LOVE the brethren’…and ‘Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind…..and your neighbor as yourself (slightly paraphrased)’. But the ‘biggie’ is the following..’if ye abide in me..and my word abides in you…ye can ask what you will…and it shall be done for them of the Father.’ As Paul indicated….you can be slain in the spirit… you can blab it and grab it…you can prosper through the prosperity gospel…you can even ‘give your body to be burned’. But if you ‘have not charity (A HEART FILLED WITH THE LOVE OF GOD)…You are NOTHING.’ WHOA!!! SERIOUS WORDS!!! SERIOUS SUBJECT!!!
WISHING ‘thy will be done’ towards you and yours.
By: internet elias on January 19, 2010
at 2:10 am
Thanks for visiting and leaving a comment again. Yes love is lacking in WoF circles. I have seen it everday for the last six months at the WoF forums at CARM. THANKS AGAIN
By: Damon Whitsell on January 19, 2010
at 7:35 pm
A Joel Osteen home:
Listening to Joel Osteen makes me long for the home mentioned in the State song of Kansas:
Oh, give me a home where the Buffalo roam Where the Deer and the Antelope play; Where never is heard a discouraging word, And the sky is not clouded all day.
The problem is…..
http://thinkpoint.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/oh-give-me-a-home-where/
By: thinkpoint on November 6, 2009
at 11:04 am
After watching Mike Murdock for 30 minutes go through his scams and lies, he and the rest of you should all be arrested and convicted for fraud under the RICO Act…It was embarassing to see such lies on public TV, which was all about money…
Religion is nothing more than a belief in Magic, and we all know that magic does not exist. But, yet, you xians howl, and dance around, screaming about how Jesus is going to make you rich, happy, cure disease and so on, and its a pure lie.
Now you know why I and many others are concluding we are Atheists. If there WAS a god in heaven, do you think this god would let some filth like Mike Murdock live and preach day in and day out? Either way, your imaginary god…is powerless to remove such scum from this earth. I am so happy I’m an Atheist and do not have to put up with such criminals in my life. You people are disgusting.
By: weismonger on October 4, 2009
at 4:32 pm
So this is where you live, Damon! Haha! I am so glad I found your blog. God is truly good.
Thanks for putting me on your blogroll. I absolutely LOVE the lay-out of your place. I can not wait to sit back and make myself at thome here!
By: redeemedhippiesplace on June 25, 2009
at 5:13 pm
Yeh this is where I hang out. I don’t live at any place for too long. I stay a few nights at one site and then move on. LOL yes God is really good. We are blessed to be able to do His work and help His people with Our Story,,, all the while as we got some healing for ourselves. Being a soldier in the Army of the Lord is NOT easy. It don’t pay money,,, but who cares. It has all the benefits I am interested in.
I always tip my hat to a fellow soldier,,, after reading your writings,,, I tip my hat to you.
Great site,,, keep up the work. BUT FINISH THAT TESTIMONY. it left me HANGING LOLOLOLOLOL
Peace and the Love of Christ too ya Hippie
damon
By: Damon Whitsell on June 26, 2009
at 2:53 pm
Hi Damon….My Name is Tim…..I noticed the article “Charismatic Roots (all based on experience as truth)”….. You are welcome to use anything from my site http://www.seeking4truth.com , I am an x charismatic also. The article is a copy of a page on my website ….
http://www.seeking4truth.com/charismatic_roots.htm you may also find this page interesting also http://www.seeking4truth.com/pentecostal_history.htm
Feel free to use anything on my site, but please give credit and a link to my site. the article “Charismatic Roots (all based on experience as truth)” was not linked to my page nor credit given.
Thanks
Tim
By: tlnaab on January 7, 2010
at 6:45 am
Hi Tim,,, I apologize for not having your article linked and credited. I try to do that as a standard operating procedure,, but failed to do so with you post. I just added the information to your post. Thanks for letting me use your articles. Your site is really a good one. I really like the article you suggested but it will probably not work on the blog because of formatting issues. But I will take a looksie at your whole site again and see if some of your work can be reproduced with credits. Again I am sorry about the oversight. Thanks for speaking up. Damon
By: Damon Whitsell on January 7, 2010
at 2:36 pm
Hi Damon!
Thanks again so much for your kind support and encouraging words. I was just wondering yesterday if this blogging thing is for me and who I was doing it for – me or the Lord. My blog had more hits yesterday than it has so far. I am glad to know the work is helping others. Thanks for adding me to your blogroll. I’ve been wondering how to do that!
Again, blessings and blessings to you and your authors! Truly may the eyes of all be opened to His wisdom and revelation! Eph 1:17-19
By: mkayla on June 24, 2009
at 3:44 pm
Well YW mKayla,,, all blogs start out slow but build. Your doing great and your testimony will help many. So think really hard about Patience. It will pay off. My brother (our brother) John added you to his blogroll too. Plus I found Hippies site through yours and I added hers too. SO thanks for showing up here with your kind words. They sure did help. Hope to get to know ya some. TAKE CARE damon
By: Damon Whitsell on June 26, 2009
at 2:46 pm
Hi you guys.
I commend you on your work. I, too, am coming out of the word of faith/charismania/healing rooms/false prophetic movement. How great it is to see so many of us fighting against these deceptive teachings!
John E – my heart goes out to you in the loss of your precious daughter. I lost mine 7 years ago.
You are welcome to pop in and say hello – or whatever – to my blog – m’kayla’s korner at http://www.mkayla.wordpress.com
Let us be found by Him, proclaiming the truth of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, until He comes!
M’Kayla
By: mkayla on June 23, 2009
at 11:59 pm
Thank you for your comment MKayla,,,,, Yeh there is a bunch of us speaking against the WoF. That is a great thing.
I forwarded your comment to John Edwards,,,, and I will check out your site. It is always good to meet another warrior.
Thanks again
damon w
By: Damon Whitsell on June 24, 2009
at 12:33 am
Hello, Damon. Since you clearly don’t want comments that say anything nice about the guys you’re against, I won’t say anything. But I have to ask you SERIOUSLY your personal opinion or what you think the Bible says about the issue… Perhaps God doesn’t necassarily want ALL believers to be BILLIONARES. But… Do you really think that as Christians, the only things we’re worthy of having (in God’s eyes) are the SAME things non-believers have or LESS than what non-believers have??? In other words, why would God ask believers to engage in things completely outside the realm of what the rest of the world is doing, then expect those SAME people to eat mud pies for dinner, AND LIKE IT?????? Again, are you saying that the God we serve is a “turn the other cheek & eat hambergers for dinner & thank me for it” type of God, while the person that slapped you is laughing with his friends about it & eating steak & has NOTHING to do with God??? Honestly, if God is going to contrast the size of our wallet to whether we love & trust in him, then perhaps it’s not us who are putting stock in money, maybe it’s really God! OK, but that sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it??? But equally ridiculous? The notion that God wants, condones, or commands that all believers be LESS than “the world” even if the subject IS MONEY!!! Be HONEST… Do you want to serve a God that “sees” you as not being worthy to have a house BIGGER than a person who OUTWORDLY MOCKS GOD???? – Thanks
By: demonknight2 on May 10, 2009
at 4:49 am
demonknight2
I WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS. I will either move your comment to the debate thread or I will write a post in responce to your strictly EARTHLY MINDED QUESTION. Either way, I will leave my responce open for your comments. I hope that you will respond to my responce when I am through with it. I will send a link to my responce to your email address. Damon Whitsell
By: Damon Whitsell on May 10, 2009
at 9:27 pm
HI demonknight2, I hope you will visit this site again and see the responce I prepared for you @ http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2009/05/13/this-world-is-not-our-home/
May Jesus Bless you!!!
By: Damon Whitsell on May 13, 2009
at 5:27 pm
When I press to comment, there is not window to comment.
I just wanted to comment on a couple of entries.
Thanks,
777denny
By: Denny on May 1, 2009
at 12:28 am
Hi Denny. The comments are set to only this page. We have many authors but I cannot answer to all comments for all authors. So I (as the lead admin) have it set up that way. Feel free to comment about any entries here,,, and most post have a link back to the articles original source (ie, the groupblog authors or others site). If you would like a post opened for comments, feel free to suggest it. I cannot say I will approve it because most of the other authors hardly ever stop by and not all of them respond to the comments I forward to them. But I will consider it if it is a topic I am able to counter comment on. THANKS for visiting. Damon
By: Damon Whitsell on May 1, 2009
at 12:41 am
JOEL OLSTEEN VERSES JOHN CALVIN:Damon, interesting post. Thanks.
Joel Olsteen…hmmmmm. I’ve read many, many, many opinions concerning Joel’s ministry. Most find him seriously lacking in quality dispensing of the gospel of Jesus. But I have somewhat, I guess, of a different spin on Olsteen. And my opinion is strictly how I, as a serious Christian, respond to and view his ministry.
Every time I’ve heard him, I was encouraged.
I’ve heard him, on different occasions, clarify that he is not God called to preach…as was his father.
He appears to me, to be one of those few people who are actually ‘lifter uppers’ amidst all the gloom, doom, and fear in the world. I know people who actually see only the up side of situations. Whether or not he is ‘called’ to the edification ministry, as a Christian he is compelled to do so.
Eph. 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
I fully realize the dangers related to Prosperity Gospel and all the stumbling blocks associated with such thinking. But in the case of Olsteen, I feel there is something good coming forth from his ministry. The huge numbers he draws proves they receive a benefit from hearing him. And it may be that, because of his popularity, we may be demanding more of him than God is demanding of him. I see his ministry solely as an encourager to those who feel the weight of the world pressing down. I DON’T see his ministry, at all, as evangelical.
Also, as I look and listen, e.g. Larry King appearances and so forth (I am not a listener or follower of him…don’t really know where to find him on Dish), I appreciate his meekness, the manner in which he gently refuses to make judgements against others, and his seeming kind nature. But these are only the things I see. I can’t know the intent of his heart.
Since I can’t know his heart, I have offered Olsteen’s ministry up to God’s authority. I trust God to protect it if it is genuine. I trust God to bring it down…if it is not genuine. I only know that words of edification ring loudly when softly spoken.
Again, very good post. Thanks. I always enjoy you site.
By: internet elias on April 25, 2009
at 3:23 pm
Hello InternetElias, I removed your comment until I had time to reply. But I have not yet had time. So I am now aprroving your comment and will later tell you why I think Joel Osteen is the most dangerous of all the WoF teachers.
By: Damon Whitsell on May 4, 2009
at 8:05 pm
Regrettably, I agree. God sometimes uses adversity as a tool in granting repentance, but not always. I believe the 1930s in the US were not marked by any mass (or measurable increase in) turning to the Lord. Nor was the exile of the northern kingdom of Israel.
No doubt the core WoF believers will remain as such (barring the Lord’s work), but in the Bear Market, perhaps a large chunk of the periphery will vote with their feet and leave. We will see if we live long enough.
By: Peter on April 24, 2009
at 10:59 pm
A theory of mass psychology and economics suggests bull and bear markets are driven chiefly by mass moods (see the blog post http://bestaffiliatefamily.com/blog/economic-trends-part/) rather than the other way around. Apparently, I came across an interesting illustration of a present mass mood — anger (http://bestaffiliatefamily.com/blog/social-mood-illustrated/).
Bear markets are driven or caused by mass negative moods.
I just read a comment you had posted from Calvin’s Institutes regarding Calvin’s observations about suffering in this life, perhaps a kind of expansion on 2 Cor. 12:9. (I myself have been chronically ill for over seven years.)
While it may be difficult to understand cursing in prosperity and blessing in poverty, I for one believe greater suffering will occur en masse in the present and coming global economic depression–perhaps another kind of “Day of the Lord.”
In light of the anger and other negative emotions (and their associated actions) in bear markets, may I suggest the reader ponder the following of Zechariah’s (or rather God’s) germane commentary:
“There was no wage for man or any wage for beast, neither was there any safety from the foe for him who went out or came in, for I set every man against his neighbor” Zech. 8:10 ESV.
Prosperity did return to the people Zechariah addressed, and another bull market may ensue in the 21 century, but in the meantime, one wonders how the Lord’s work in afflicting us (cf 2 Chron. 15:5) will affect the Word of Faith movement, a movement that may have derived much of its punch from the the positive mood of the past bull market.
In any market, may God’s name be hallowed. And may God also provide for us as or more than He does for the lilies and ravens: God’s glory first, and our good second.
By: Peter on April 24, 2009
at 3:09 pm
Thank you for your comment Peter. I think the current market will either detour or solidify the movement. I think I see signs of the later in my interactions online. WoF faith people are being taught and still excepting the same false lies. They are just being told that now is the time to PRACTICE those lies,,, MORE THAN EVER.
I have heard many of the WoF top guns say that the only ones that will go untouched by the coming or already upon us depression,, are the ones who continue to PLANT seed. The WoF guy is still doing the same terrible things. It is just that when he gives God glory for him getting a loan for a motorcycle that he thought he did not have the credit to get,,, it is not as good of a rate as it might have been 1 year ago,, although more highly exorbitant.
I ask if the top WoF are being impacted by the recession/depression. I don’t think so. I liken it to when I worked for Budweiser. In a boom,, people drink!. In a Bust,, people drink,,, and even a little more. Now the drinker drinks to drown his sorrow. But the WoF gives to drown his sorrow and to alleviate his situation. The more the pain or loss,,, the more reason to give more to NOT LOSE what you already have invested in their pursuit of personal financial wealth.
For the typical WoF guy that finds himself in financial crisis,, the magic formulas have not worked. And he is worse off than a non WoF person. Because a denominational guy is not told to step out in faith by giving with a credit card or to give your grocery money,, in faith. The regular guy is not drowned in debt and interest payments.
So in my mind the WoF guy only has two options. Depart from his current prosperity theology,,, or practice it more than ever. Even in the face of epic evidence of it’s failure.
So I think as up to this point,, it is solidifying. But I suspect a total collapse of the Dollar will happen to transition us into the Amero,,, and that will be detrimental to the WoF and prosperity gospel. But I think by in large that WoF people will leave their prosperity gospel and cling to the rest of their charismatic beliefs,,, and be deceived by the coming anti Christ anyway.
By: Damon Whitsell on April 24, 2009
at 7:28 pm
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to come by and check out the blog (Damon visited mine yesterday). Thank you all for sharing your experiences in the Word of Faith movement. I look forward to reading more.
By: Aaron on April 17, 2009
at 11:31 am
Thank you for the visit Aaron. I am glad you stopped by.
By: Damon Whitsell on April 17, 2009
at 2:19 pm
Excharism: ‘Holy Trinity’…..Great post. Enjoyed it.
>>>>>What we know of God is only that which he has revealed to us through the creation around us, the incarnation of His Son, and through the written revelation of His Word, the Bible.<<<<<<<<<<<
1co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God
1co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
By: internet elias on April 8, 2009
at 1:46 am
Thank you Elias!
By: excharisma on April 9, 2009
at 12:47 am
CHRISTIANITY AND FREEMASONRY: I don’t know the right or wrong of Freemasonry. I do know many, many, special Christian friends and associates..all the way from my early childhood. As a teenage we lived next door to the local Masonic Lodge. We kids would lean against the walls during meetings trying to ‘hear’ secrets. But, of course, that never happened. After all, it was a brick building. But, in those days, Masons were all Christians and church members. They were highly respected. No one, ever, considered Masons to be any thing other than a Christian organization. I knew two masons very well. One was my dad. He was an evangelist who was called personally by a manifestation of the glorified Christ. Christ stood at the end of dad’s bed and said, “Son, I’m real! You tell them!’ Dad woke the whole household immediately afterwards. The memory of his rejoicing and humble tears will never leave my mind. He lived his entire life in service to God. To this day, the one word used to describe dad is ‘kind.’ He never raised his voice to me, my two sisters, or my mother throughout our lives. The only ‘impression’ I got from him concerning Masons was that it is a brotherhood. If one needs a friend, help, or support….a fellow Mason is TRUSTED and WILL be that friend, help, and support! I even TRUSTED it to be just that way.
The other Mason I knew personally was my father-in-law. He, too, was a quiet, fair, church-going, mind-his-own-business, prefer-others-before-oneself kind of man. I had such respect for him. He was EXTREMELY honest. He was EXTREMELY forgiving.
My son began attending Masons a few years ago. He was living in a turbulent marriage. He was seeing lots and lots of hypocricy, selfrighteousness, and so-called Christianity turned inward only. The only thing he said to me was this, “Studying for the Masons is the closest I have felt to God in a long time.” Shortly afterwards, his wife left for another man. His work took him to another state. He was devastated, heart-broken, and trying to make things okay for their seven-year-old daughter. He is based in his local state labor union and continues to work for an out-of-state company. He is not continuing with the Masons since he is away much of the time. God is bringing healing the wounds. My son is continuing to respond to the ‘drawing’ of God. The turbulence is behind him. His daughter is safe under the watchcare of Almight God.
With these three experiences of mine related to Freemasonry, I would say, ‘YES, you can be both a Christian and a Mason.” But as the UTube video said, ‘ not all Masons are Christians.” I’m sure not all who say, “Lord, Lord” are
Christians.
By: internet elias on April 4, 2009
at 12:21 am
Hello Mam, Thank you for visiting again.
It seems to be that you did not read any of the articles in that post to come to your conclusion in the end. You said,,, ”I don’t know the right or wrong of Freemasonry.” (the articles pointed the ‘right and wrong” out) and then you told me three stories of people who you know to be mason. BUT you did not address the issue is the practice of freemasonry and biblical Christianity compatible?
I have liked your comments and your writings at your site because you seem to have a love for God’s word. BUT it is obvious to me this is one area where you are following something other than the bible. Your emotions because your son is in it. I got a bunch of family in it. All my Mormon relatives are Mason!!! And yeh I know that despite that the two are incompatible,, many Christians are in both groups. But that don’t make it right. I have studied freemasonry for almost as long has I have the bible and Christianity. And I can tell you while a person may go to both meeting places,,, they cannot devote themselves too both because,,,, no matter how many blue lodge masons think and tell you that freemasonry is not a religion,,, every major freemasonry book written by freemasons says it is indeed a religion and the only true religion. Because I have studied it so long,,, I could turn on my recorder here and preach for hours on that subject and NOT even come close to scratching the surface on what there is to know about the group,,,,, that most people don’t know. That is because “illumined” masons don’t want you to know. It is a luciferian occult group that practices the occult practice of “secret groups with in secret groups” and “secrets within secrets”
The “un-Illumined” or the “un-Adept” are clueless that they are in very dangerous group and they are putting themselves and their life’s under demonic influence by being in freemasonry. In fact the Luminaries of freemasonry brag about keeping the unworthy away from the “true light that is (they say) freemasonry” by not telling them the truth about it.
I got all kind of articles on two of my other blogs. I think this is the one that will help you the most. AND you should watch the debate video at the end. You should be praying for your son. He could be in danger as freemasonry has it’s own salvation and gospel of works.
PLEASE READ THIS AND WATCH THE VIDEOS
Is Freemasonry compatible with Christianity? Can you be both? Mixing Oil with water!: W/FreeMasons -VS- Christianity VIDEO DEBATE
http://occultagendaexposure.wordpress.com/2008/12/27/is-freemasonry-compatible-with-christianity-can-you-be-both-mixing-oil-with-water-wfreemasons-vs-christianity-video-debate/
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PS. In your closing statement,, you compared two different categorical things to draw a false dilemma from a false premise to make a false conclusion. I am sure if you will look at it you will see that your reasoning is a Non Sequitar logical fallacy.
By: Damon Whitsell on April 4, 2009
at 1:12 am
I think, if one learns the broader history and infection of Gnostic thinking into Freemasonry (as well as into the Word Faith theology) one can start to broadly see where these movements go array. From professor Pagels (the gnostic professor who popularizes gospels such as Judas and Thomas), to Benny Hinn, as well as freemasonry. If you learn the aberrant teachings of Gnosticism and compare it to the historic doctrines of orthodoxy, you will see many of the heresies imbued in these movements. While I am by no means an expert, I do “simplify” gnosticism in the immediate link. I also take on Elaine Pagels and other Gnostic Gospel persons here in the link that follows:
What is Freemasonry
http://religiopoliticaltalk.blogspot.com/2007/08/what-is-freemasonry.html
Feminism, Gnosticism, and Christianity
http://religiopoliticaltalk.blogspot.com/2007/07/women-religion.html
Enjoy, and thanks for coming by here to add to your learning.
By: papagiorgio200 on June 24, 2009
at 1:27 am
JOHN EDWARDS: ‘WHEN A CHILD DIES”
Oh, John, couldn’t help but feel a deep tugging within my heart as I read this post. One has to experience what you and your wife experienced to understand.
God has brought you to a new place of true faithfulness in Him…..through your suffering. HEAVEN IS CLOSER NOW THAN EVER BEFORE! John, we are in the last days. It is certain. I’m seeing so many ways in which God is gathering His children to Him. I have a friend, good man, been in church all his life, good wife, good kids, grandchildren….was an agent with Alfa for many years. Busy, busy with the ‘rat race.’ He took money from Alfa. That was so out of character for this man. He is nearing the end of of his prison two year prison term at the federal prison in Montgomery. As sad and tragic as his situation has been, he now is focused on eternal things. He is very musically talented and for the time in prison, he has used his music to minister to the other inmates. Who can say what God will allow to bring us to a ‘better’ place in Him. I do know that God is SOVERIEGN. John, had your experiences been different, you would NOT be who and where you are today. I suspect that God is continuing to lead you on the path leading to the narrow gate……righteousness in Him….real ministry in Him..as the days get darker and darker. Your little Jennifer is safe. She cannot be touched by the evil of the times in which we live. As I shared in the post about my little one, I’ve seen a glimpse of that place. It is REAL. It is bright! It is LIFE! John, as I was allowed to see my ministering angel in the delivery room at Benjamin’s death, and as I was able to see the one there to go with Benjamin, I am so very grateful that God chose to give him LIFE over the broken health experiences he would have had here with a heart defect. God said clearly to me, “Carolyn, I didn’t let him die. I let him LIVE?’ When my older two were very small, I asked God to make sure they were eternally safe. I asked if He looked ahead and saw they would reject salvation….to PLEASE take them to Himself before the age of accountability. God just may have honored my prayer by taking Benjamin when he was only twenty-two minutes old. But the most important thing is this. You can trust our precious Father with the beautiful creation who came forth from the loving covenant between you and her mother. SHE LIVES! SHE AND BENJAMIN ARE MORE ALIVE THAN WE ARE!
ALLOW YOURSELF TO ENJOY the precious thoughts and memory of her.. EVERY DAY. She is still a part of you and your wife, of your family, and of your future.Satan is the accuser, the one who places guilt inside your heart concerning what you did or did not do concerning the possibility of an earlier diagnosis. Those thoughts are not from God.
John, my desire was to lift you up, to encourage, and to include Jennifer…to call her name. Her life continues to impact others. I hope, so hope, I’ve said nothing to hurt nor offend. If I have, please forgive me.
1ch 16:31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice: and let men say among the nations, The LORD reigneth.
By: internet elias on March 31, 2009
at 5:08 pm
Thank you again Internet Elias for visiting and commenting. I have forwarded your comment to Pastor John. He will likely respond when he gets off work. Damon
By: Damon Whitsell on March 31, 2009
at 5:17 pm
DAMON/WORD OF FAITH ‘CRAP’: I so understand what you are doing to help raise awareness among the brethren concerning ‘false’ beliefs as they relate to faith and prayer. As you, I think, said, ‘our faith should be in God…not in our faith,’ or something like that. For about four years now, God has been teaching my heart, by way of the Holy Spirit, to desire, as did King David, a ‘heart’ examination.
Ps 26:2 Examine me, O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my heart
Ps 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
Ps 139:24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting
At this point, God is growing my faith. I’m not growing my faith…HE IS! As He bends His perfect Spiritual ear to my imperfect heart, He LOUDLY hears its DESIRES! From the ‘heart’ the mouth speaks! Uh oh!!! But the closer we come to Him and that supernatural Love..the quieter we become. The mouth stops ‘telling,’ ‘demanding,’ ‘suggesting,’ ‘ordering,’ and most of all…stops usurping authority which belongs only to God. As we come into fellowship with Him, we completely trust for ‘thy will be done.’ THERE IS NOTHING I CAN TELL GOD THAT HE DOES NOT ALREADY ‘KNOW.’
He even gave simple and clear instructions on what prayer really is…and on HOW to pray.
1th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you
Mt 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Mt 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Mt 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Mt 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
A HEART having the presence of the Holy Spirit within it…will not desire temporal things…but will desire ‘spiritual’ things. Such is the example of Paul.
Ro 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
1co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
WHAT WE SHOULD DO, I SUPPOSE, IS SIMPLY ‘LET GO AND LET GOD!’
By: internet elias on March 29, 2009
at 12:21 am
Hello Mamm,,, I just got your comment but I am on my way out the door to my class reunion. I will have to comment more tomorrow. BTW,, I did not write the article. That is pastor John Edwards article. His computer is really bad so I copy and past his articles over for him and I forgot to change the name and credit him for his writing. Sorry. Will comment more later.. Thanks for visiting again,,,, and the blogroll link too. Damon
By: Damon Whitsell on March 29, 2009
at 12:33 am
REVIVAL OR APOSTOSY: Damon…There are not words sufficient to express my joy at reading the article. I know I shouldn’t…but I’ve gotten a little discouraged lately due to the onslaught of ‘apostosy’ seemingly…all around me. God literally has lifted me up by way of this post. Every word in it is pure scripture! I KNOW we are in the last days! I KNOW deception is spreading like a nuclear cloud. I KNOW many, many, many are being caught unaware because they will not ‘search’ scripture to see if those things be true. Close family of mine consider me somewhat ‘outcasts’ because my view is different to theirs. Many of them are very stressed over what they are seeing happening globally. But they totally reject that God controls even the end times which He has turned over to be fulfilled. They still are looking to government to fix the ‘sin.’ The article is so dead on…deception is rampant! For me, all things are in God’s control. I am not afraid! I KNOW what is ahead for the Christian in these times. God, over the years, has shown me visions which give ‘understanding’ of His scripture. Many of the visions pertain to the end times. I KNOW the battle is already won! I KNOW if we can’t buy or sell….He will feed us with manna…or take us home to Himself. I HAVE NO FEAR! ‘If He is for us..who can be against us?’ ‘He is my rock, my shield, my deliverer, my fortress, and my strength.’
Again, thank you so much for the post. It has been so encouraging for me to know I am not alone with the knowledge of tribulation and the upcoming rule of antichrist. At nine years old, Jesus showed me His power over Satan on my behalf. He has shown me numerous times how we ‘indeed move from death to Life.’ In Him, there is no defeat!
My God’s ‘will be done’ through your ministries.
By: internet elias on March 26, 2009
at 12:01 am
Thank You Internet Elias.
If you liked that article,, you will really like this one from our groupblog author,,, Pastor Jeff Klutz
http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2009/03/26/the-great-falling-away-part-one/
I feel ya. It is so distressing to see all the false teaching to be epidemic reaching almost pandemic levels. I like the old adage,, “The Truth might live a wretched life,,, but it will always outlive a lie”. It is remarkable that people can believe something they think is Christian,, but a biblical examination will show that their thinking and doctrine is 180 degrees out,, and totally opposite of what truth is. Latter Rain (Days) revival is just one thing where they are 180 out. The WoF is foundationally 180 degrees out,, built on a false definition of FAITH. Jesus said,, “Have faith in God”,, NOT faith in faith or faith in my faith.
This saddened me today. I was reading a friends sermon on END TIMES APOSTACY. It listed Revelation 6:15-17 (NIV) 15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” It is very sad that people will realize far too late that Jesus was not 100% literal when he said,,, speak onto the mountain and it will be removed,, what ever you sayeth,, you will receive? They should have read the rest of the whole council of God,, where it says,,, if according to THY will.
A time is a coming where all men will cry out to die,,, but they will not be able to die. Even if they jump off a mountain or if a mountain “falls on them“. AND SURELY if a mountain “falls on them”,, they will not be able to say unto the mountain,, “be thou removed.”
I sometimes have to realize this when I get distraught about the normalcy of false teaching. God’s truth is attacked on every side,, from within and without,, and from every possible angle. BUT IT STILL STANDS and has not withered away as the grass fades. THIS IS THE GREATEST TESTIMONY TO GOD,,, HIS ENDURING WORD. Gods truth is eternal and the gates of hell shall not prevail against his church.
Jesus told us to fear not when we see these things come to pass,,, from they must come to pass. Rather let us rejoice and rest in His Sovereign Power. JESUS IS THE TRUTH.
By: Damon Whitsell on March 27, 2009
at 9:38 pm
Thanks for the information. Very good site. May God bless your ministry.
By: joeland7 on March 25, 2009
at 8:37 pm
Thank you Joeland7. ***We covet your prayers!!!*** We appreciate your visit and comments.
By: Damon Whitsell on March 27, 2009
at 9:37 pm
THIS COMMENT WAS MADE ON THE RESOURCE PAGE by zespook AND WAS MOVED HERE ALONG WITH MY RESPONCE!!
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I am glad I tuned in. I appreciate the Kenneth Copeland 33degree, etc.
Some thirty-eight years ago and because of my serious belief in the Biblical Holy Ghost, I ran headlong into serious conflict with what I supposed to be an opposite spiritual source involving a ‘wild west type sheriff and his posse that determined to abort a legal non-profit enterprise. Shortly thereafter I traced the conflict to Freemasonry. I searched everything and even got books not allowed ordinary folks.
Since Freemasonry hides behind symbols, I sought the purpose thereof. Once I learned the spirit of Masonry was in direct opposition to the Holy Ghost, I was in position to do deeper search. The Bible states man as a flesh being had sinned, but Masonry claims it was the soul, not the flesh body. The real search in Masonry seems to be to that once, mankind was a god, but something happened to that knowledge, and one must again find the path. That something seems to be the ‘Blood Covenant’ when Jesus rose from the dead. It seems that only through blasphemy of the real Holy Ghost or committing the un-pardonable sin, can one obtain the real Spirit of Masonry.
As to retracing the path to when these god-men were gods, they have to go back to Adam and Eve after Satan had entered into them. Spiritual masonry research claims these spirits go even farther back. Sure it does. This secret is that the spirit (real spirit of Masonry) was the Spirit of Satan (Lucifer) BEFORE it entered into the human realm of Adam and Eve.
When Jesus rose from the dead, he cast Satan off the throne. In order for people to get the real spirit of masonry in their possession, the Blood Covenant of Jesus has to be stomped under foot. The un-pardonable sin has to be committed. The 33rd degree was the first of their degrees and was so-named because it was the age at which Jesus was murdered. The ‘Mysterious Force’ was founded in AD 43 to reinstate the Jewish religion by attacking Jesus followers and his Holy Ghost and was to last till it was destroyed from the earth. The ‘Mysterious Force’ name was changed in 1717 to Freemasonry. It started out as all Jews and its main purpose was to be kept secret except to the nine founders and their descendants. This is the real origin of the Kingdom of the Anti-Christ.
Thank you for your misistry.
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MY RESPONCE
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Thank you for your comment Zesbook, I have deeply studied freemasonry also and agree with all you said. But it seems you do know bit more than me. God bless you for your kind and insightfull comment. Damon
By: Damon Whitsell on March 9, 2009
at 5:53 pm
Concering true faith, an earler post at my blog site called ‘Simple Faith’ gives a little more detailed description of what faith is to me.
I am internetelias.wordpress.com
I desire God’s will be done through you.
By: internet elias on March 9, 2009
at 2:56 pm
UNDERSTANDING MARK 11:3
I’m so pleased to have found yur blog site!
For me, as a result of my experiences with the love of our precious Heavenly Father……faith is ‘knowing’ (knowledge conceived…as in Adam ‘knew’ his wife) the heart of God. His heart is Love. Love cannot be restrained…but by its very nature…must permeate outward from itself. For me, faith is born as His love for me circulates through my heart and returns to Him. When this ‘high’ love is a reality within the human heart, the desires are changed.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
I’ve been given, by His grace, only a small portion of that pure Love. But a little of a Love so ‘high’ and so ‘pure’….goes a long way. With this Love living in my heart…and ‘knowing’ I can ‘ask what ye will, and it shall be done’…….how could I ask anything other than for the spiritual benefit of another? It is not possible within the realm of true ‘faith’….to ask for things temporal…..or for oneself. The mutated fruit of apostate ‘faith’ is materialism and greed. And, you are so right! Faith is not a force in and of itself! Faith is SIMPLE ‘knowing’ and ‘believing’ and ‘trusting’ the force we know as Father. He is the force, the power, the warrior, the defender, the fortress, the shield, the rock, the deliverer, the strength, the savior, the soveriegn, the gift-giver, and the creator of all things created………….GOD!
How DARE we, through Word of Faith, or any other distortion of true faith…..place demands on GOD!
Again, to all you guys at this site….I am so glad to have found you. I am encouraged by the scriptural path you are taking to dispell the dangerous Word of Faith doctrine. We do not war against flesh and blood (people, neighbors, family, church brethren) but ‘against spiritual wickedness in high places.’
1sa 17:47 And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the Lord’s, and he will give you into our hands.
By: internet elias on March 9, 2009
at 2:10 pm
John Edwards: Just found your site and heard your ‘Word of Faith..Why I Left.
It’s hard to find words to describe the emotions I felt hearing your reasons for leaving Word of Faith, about the loss of your daughter, and especially…..while hearing the sincere humility you’ve found in the fellowship with our loving Father. For me, faith is simple trust. I trust my heavenly Father so completely….I can only pray ‘thy will be done.’ I, too, have a child in the place of God. He went to the Father twenty-two minutes after his birth. God’s loving kindness reached out to me though I deserved none of it. I just recently posted the happening of Benjamin’s birth and death (from death to life). God had shown me years before what would happen. And two angels were there with us in the hospital delivery room. How good of God to comfort my mother’s heart by letting me see my angel as well as the beautiful young man who would go with Benjamin to that beautiful place.
I am internetelias.wordpress.com
If you are interested
By: internet elias on March 9, 2009
at 4:13 am
I read your blog about God not being in control and it was definitely a timely post.
I’m currently a member of a church that has been linked with the Word of Faith movement, but I have been in discussion with some of the ministers because I disagree with the doctrine. I was drawn to the church b/c the pastor was preaching about holiness and servanthood, but I knew he had a reputation for preaching prosperity and name it and claim it. Recently, all the rumors from before became reality and everything was about asking God for this and believing God for that and it coming to pass. If you don’t have it, it’s because you haven’t believed or requested it from God.
The idea of tapping into the authority we have over Satan through Christ sounds good until you deify mortals, which is what I was starting to witness. Since my church is a rather large church I am waiting in line to speak with the pastor to express my concerns with his teaching, but I already know that I will not be able to stay under such false doctrine.
Hey check out my blog about Christian News
http://www.1church.wordpress.com
By: cho23sen on March 5, 2009
at 2:38 am
I received this comment on a post from this groupblog after it was exported to one of my other blogs. My response follows. Damon
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“Like many sniper Christians, you fail to recognize the constitution of the audience many of these comments were made for. In 2 of the quotes for Joyce Meyer alone, you don’t even appropriately argue the point.
This makes you no different than those you accuse.
But, at any rate, I struggle to believe that, based on the standards you are applying, that ANY preacher, minister, or priest could possibly be faultless. If we wait for perfect preachers, pastors, or people”
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“”SNIPER CHRISTIANS??? You mean heresy Hunters???
We are commanded to defend the Gospel and Doctrine of Christ. And to refute error. Remember a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. Are you different for calling names,,,, and committing the ad hominem fallacy?
WHILE I DID NOT WRITE THE ARTICLE,,,, I recognize the constitution of the audience in which these comments where made. Constitution is defined as composition or structure of something; makeup. And that makeup is of folks who would be easily duped by the statements as these heretical teachers,,, including Joyce Meyers has made.
AND the constitution of the audience has ZILCH to do with the content of the message. In fact the message is totally independent from any audiences proclivities. So your augment that I am not different than they,,, is Pure bogus and fabricated obfuscations. In fact I am much different than they. I am just a poor old sinner saved by grace. Who becomes more and more like Christ daily. Yet I am still not a sinless being as He is and was.
And to be quit honest,,, if I where to wake up tomorrow,,, realizing that I had said today,,, the things these demonically inspired teachers have said,,,, I would not vacillate and try to procure the loyalties of my constituent audience. I would immediately take myself to the gallows poles and end myself,,, least I continue to procure and heap Gods fiery wrath and judgment upon myself,,, as these heretics do.
Have you not read that in later times some will follow deceiving Sprits and believe things taught by demons? And that a time will come when people will no longer endure sound doctrine,,, but as to appease their itching bears,,, they will heap a great number of teachers to themselves to tell them what they want to hear,, AND WILL DEPART FROM TRUTH,,, to follow Myths?
I suggest you watch the video here
I have added it to the post for your convenience.””
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By: Damon Whitsell on March 4, 2009
at 6:40 pm