COMMENTS PAGE

 
 
 

THIS IS OUR COMMENT PAGE

If you would like to leave a comment about this blog or The Word of Faith Movement,,, this is the place to do so.

ABSOLUTELY No comments which contain any Ad Hominem, (criticizing or attacking the person who proposed the argument (ie. personal attacks) will be allowed. All pages and post are set by the administrator to the default setting of “NO comments allowed“. Each groupblog Author may from time to time allow comments on his or her individual post. If so, we ask that you only comment directly regarding the points made in that post.

If you decide to post your comments here. Please be advised that any comments made on this site become the property of ‘THE WORD ON THE WORD OF FAITH” and will be used at our discretion on our other sites, radio show, and in video productions.  Also be aware of these 2 simple site rules.

1. THIS IS NOT a place for people to advocate for the Word of faith Movement and it’s teachings. If you wish to advocate for the WoF. Please contact the plethora of the TV, radio and print ministries that already do this. ABSOLUTELY No comments which contain any Ad Hominem, (criticizing or attacking the person who proposed the argument (ie. personal attacks) will be allowed.

2. Just because you leave a comment does NOT mean that your comment will be approved and/or that it will get a response.

It is this sites purpose to collect, catalog and display the testimonies of those who have been NEGATIVELEY EFFECTED by the Word of Faith teachings,,, and those who teach it.
If your comments do not fit under this single parameter,, they will NOT be approved.
Unless they are approved for the sole purpose of biblical reproof and refutation,, or to display the nasty and trollish (seeking to evoke an emotional response) tactics of those who defend the Word of Faith Movement.

But it is not our intention to answer every comment, or to biblically reprove every comment that is made in defense of the Word of Faith Movement.

So therefore, if your pro-WoF comment is not approved, it is because it was decided that it was not appropriate to spend the time and energy to offer biblical reproof and refutation on the points contained within that comment because they where either deemed irrelevant or redundant and ALREADY ADDRESSED in the post made here on this blog.

If you have been negatively effected by the Word of Faith Movement, we have empathy with you and ask you to share your story with us and the rest of the world.

If you are a follower of the Word of Faith Movement and think it has been a positive influence on your life, we feel sorry for you but cannot sympathize,, so we ask you to please refer to rule Number 1.

In engaging in Word of Faith Exposure work, we have found the responses of Word of Faith (apologist) believers and Pastors to basically to take the same approach. WHAT EVER IT TAKES to divert attention or end the discussion,, is allowable. BUT NOT HERE.

 
 
 

No comments will be approved that take any of these approaches.

Your just being judgmental. Judge NOT least you be judged. Keep your eyes on Jesus. Can’t we all just get along. Touch not the Lords anointed. Your causing division in the body of Christ. Who are you to judge. What about all the good this teachings does. What about all the good things these teachers do. How do you expect to reach the world if you don’t ask for money. You don’t believe in the promises of God. You don’t believe in Miracles. That is not very Christian of you. Your putting God in a box. You not a very good Christian. Your not even really a Christian. What about unity. Didn’t Christ come to bring unity. You have a Jezebel Spirit. Your hindering the works of God. You don’t believe in faith. If the Word of Faith Movement was not from God,, it would not be prolific. What is wrong with wanting “Your Best Life NOW”, You’re just a heresy hunter. You are just a Sniper Christian. Your just a bloody Calvinist. Come not against the Man of God. We really like what your doing BUT. Your cause is Noble BUT. Your heaping judgment upon your head by judging. You don’t believe in prosperity. Your just jealous because you have not gotten your healing and financial blessings. Your just an old sour puss. What is your problem with God. You think God want us all to be in poverty. I myself was brought to a saving knowledge of Jesus as Lord in a similar type church. You don’t believe in the blessings of God. Your just casting hate nets. God works in mysterious ways. You have an antichrist Sprit. Didn’t Jesus tell us to just get along. Don’t throw stones, it is not very Christian like. God told me to tell you. I have a word of Knowledge from the Lord for you. Don’t make waves,, just ride them. Your just being difficult. Your not doing God any favors. But I was saved through one of these ministries and your denying the works of God. Your blaspheming the Holy Spirit. You’re a Modern day Pharisee. Why can‘t you be more loving. Stop being judgmental. We have seen and experienced the Miracles. We know all miracles are from God. Your not from God. Your just looking for something or someone to disapprove of. Your causing damage to the Body of Christ. Be advised NOT to come against God. God is doing a new thing and you are resisting him. God is against your religious Spirit. Your stuck in your religious tradition. We are not to judge. Why are you coming against this teacher of god. If it is not of God it will fail but if it is of God you can’t stop it. Jesus is more important than doctrine. Look at the fruit of these men. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. What goes around comes around. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Forgive and forget. Your ways are not the Lord’s ways. You cannot hope to understand God’s Divine Plan. You are not being a “team player”.

AND IF YOU ARE TEMPTED TO RESPOND IN ANY OF THESE WAYS,, We suggest that you examine the idea that you may have been brainwashed,,,, and are no longer responsive to deep examinations and are now incapable of independent thought.  These kind of responses have two things in common. 1. They are all Ad Hominem, (criticizing or attacking the person who proposed the argument (ie. personal attacks) 2. They are all thought terminating clichés used to quell cognitive dissonance. A method of mind control.

We list these post that will answer many of these thought terminating type responses.

The Thought-terminating Cliché (a Word of Faith article) The WoF Cone of Silence What are the Characteristics of Cults? by Josh McDowell and Don Stewart What is a (Pseudo/Christian) Cult? by Josh McDowell and Don Stewart Why talk about cults? by JesusIsLord.com Responding to Heresy: Five Biblical Principles for Confronting Heresy Exposing Doctrinal Errors: Heresy Hunting or Biblical Mandate? 8 Characteristics of a Counterfeit Christian Church Counterfeit Christianity Dr. Harry Ironside: The Value of Exposing Doctrinal Error The Word of Faith Movement and the Capture of the Mind The Loaded Language Of The Prophetic Movement: Loaded Language and Mind Control VIDEO

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CHECK OUT  THE 24/7 LINE UP OF 60+ HRs OF THE VERY BEST **Word of Faith** EXPOSURE VIDEO AT
THE WORD on the Word of Faith TV

AND DON”T MISS OUR TWotWoF GROUP RADIO SHOW

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Responses

  1. When you have proof of god, or any of the claims made by the religious, that religious magic exists, then your comments might have some weight and reality attached to it. Until you can prove there is a god, or that Jesus existed, you are just living in a delusional world. Of course, this comment will not be approved, because one of over arching aspects of religion, is to not discuss what proof you have and to deny reality. That’s how religion does it…keep people in the dark and believing in religious magic.

    By: Judy Weismonger on April 2, 2012
    at 12:13 am

    • HI Judy, Thanks for visiting our groupblog on the Word of Faith Movement. Sorry being so long accepting your comment. I was away from the keyboard for a few days.

      I love the opportunity to tell folks why I believe in God, The Bible and Christianity. Some say I have a bad habit of seeking out opportunities to share the reasons I believe what I do. I even prayed I would have the chance to share with someone this week because I am teaching others how to share their Christian faith also,, and here you are. TY again.

      I would like to make you a deal but before I do let me say that this website is dedicated to exposing and refuting “religious magic” because it has nothing to do with orthodox Christianity. Let me explain. The Word of Faith Movement [WoF] (a heretical subset of Christianity as mostly represented by today’s “Christian TV”) has a distinctive doctrine called confessionism that is the same as witcraft or magic. This teaching says that words have literal creative power, faith is a force (instead of trust in God) and ‘faith filled words” have the power to create physical realities.

      For instance, Proverbs 18:21a says “The tongue has the power of life and death”. Historically Christians have interpreted this verse to mean (as context shows) that words have influence (they can be used to build people up, or to tear them down) but they do not have the literal power of life and death. If words had the literal power of life and death, we would not have any need to make weapons to wage war, instead people would be literally killing each other with words. This false teaching (witchcraft veiled in Christian terms) has caused WoF teachers to teach things like if you say “My head is killing me” or “I was laughing so hard I thought I was going to die”,,, that your speaking death over yourself and causing your own demise through the power of words. It has also caused them to say absurd things like “God does not determine when you die, you do by the words you speak” (Jesse Duplantis) and “Speak to your wallet and say get fat you big old wallet” (Marilyn Hickey). This teaching is not Christian, it can be traced back to a baptist preacher (EW Kenyon) who studied the occultic Mind Sciences or the New Thought Movement at the Boston Oratory College and melded New Thought with Christianity about 70 years ago. I’m not sure how you define “religious magic”,, but if you are thinking about what I just explained,, then we have something in common because I don’t believe the WoF teachings and speak fervently against them.

      OK, here is my deal.

      ***I will show you 8-10 good arguments, or proofs, for the existence of God if you first tell me a few arguments, or proofs, that atheism is true.***

      And then I will enlighten you with about 10 extra-biblical historical sources for the historicity of Jesus Christ (of which there are about 50 sources that tell us about 150 things about the life of Jesus),, to show you why the evidence for Jesus existence is so strong that even the most famous atheist (like Hitchens, Hawkings and Dawkins) do not question that Jesus Christ was a real historical person.

      I look forward to hearing your proofs that Atheism is true,,, and then giving you some proofs that Theism is true. Hope to hear from you soon.

      Be Blessed,
      Damon Whitsell

      By: Damon Whitsell on April 3, 2012
      at 8:24 pm

  2. Thanks for the replies……one and all. My point wasn’t about style nor do I think it was petty, nor ultra critical, I was merely pointing out that the venacular against the WoF movement sounded so much ‘like’ the WoF movement. I am sorry that this does not seem the place for airing views about the WoF movement and trying to come to grips with the ‘whys’ about it all. No one has picked up on the points I asked about ‘why’, about “american historic ‘ reasons why, or national psyche. WoF thinking lead to the end of 4 years of love and a marriage. It is ‘ugly’, and I have thought and pondered all this much. However this does not seem to be the forum for thinking. Its a place for war stories and definitely not ‘wondering about ‘ how and why. My realisation last night (while writing in this whole interchange and me hearing and reading what I have experienced over the last 8 months from other people), that maybe the dangers are what WoF also does to attitudes and emotions re ‘taking offense’, and the whole bible verse machine gun thang. Tit for tat. The answers lie in some of the questions I asked that have been totally avoided. And that’s cool. Disappointing but cool. Wof thinking is so mirrored and linked to in church lifestyles, pentecostalism and dominionism, to me they seem to be very close bedfellows……and I for one think when you look at Asusa St with Seymour & the links to Parham, again you have a man made scenario that has the same stuff going down as WoF , the ‘snake oil’ salesman. There are lots of dubious things about these people and questionable theology and so called outworkings and quests for ‘revival’. All words you hear in WoF circles.passionate and loud and the pews errupt with amen and hallelujahs.
    The answers are beyond just looking at the bible to refute, way to simple and way to easy as opposed to looking at our own faiths, and nations and history and asking why, socialogically are we so dupped by all this.

    So I shall say no more. Jesus said so many times, he who has ears to hear let him hear……………eyes to see let him see……….we are called to listen and observe and not everyone is on the same page………the masses that welcomed Jesus that welcomed Jesus to Jerusalem, some of them were in the crowd shouting for Barabas to be freed and calling, ‘crucify him’. The people in the pews are mostly sheep following the wrong shepherd, they are not encouraged to think, dont want to think, they want to run with the crowd and follow. Watched ‘the Book of Eli’ last night before all this errupted. How apt and how true of ‘the book’, and how men use it.
    And i thanked Charles in the very first letter Damon. Sorry to have caused all the smoke, was getting exciting….we may have got to the answers beyond all the offense and personal attacks…………..had we the courage to keep on……but this is obviously not the place for iron sharpening. May God continue to use this blog to provide a voice and sense of family for those burned by this stupidity. Evil is stuff like pride, greed, violence, materialism and warmongering etc………….this WoF stuff is just plain stupid really…………and maybe the real monsters are ourselves for falling for it…..and letting decievers shepherd the flocks, giving them voice and power……….(why do so many of these people still have a following? in a nation/world thirsty for prophets and the ‘super spiritual’. I thought the questions about why , how can this happen were the really good ones……but we have to get a bit vulnerable to face those and that’s not a space everyone wants to go……………cheers. I will make it my ambition to live a quiet life and work with my hands….as Paul said.

    By: Graham Hughes on March 31, 2012
    at 8:45 pm

    • HI Graham, This is not going to be the most kind comment I have ever made here. 1. I find it kinda ironic if not hypocritical that you complain about someones testimony and then bring up free speech and claiming it was disappointing to you that I did not edit it. Would it have been free speech if I had edited it or not accepted it? 2. You seem to be a little too patriotic to bring up NZ and American in a way that seems like contrived sanctimony. Your not going to get me to believe that NZ’ers are generally more gracious, insightful and less prone to label things than anyone else. While I don’t deny the pain the WoF caused you, it is nothing compared to the pain people like your wife and others who have fell for this stuff feel. Did you notice Richard said “I repent for ever sharing their evil words and books”. He has to deal with the ones he hurt because he was not only deceived but also deceiving people. Many times I have listened to people that left the WoF say that the worst thing is the people they hurt, especially when they would talk about their idols (WoF teachers) and they would defend them. 3. While I don’t sense any anger in your post, your last paragraph here was irrelevant emoting and pontificating. 4. Richards testimony just got a “like” from a visitor and one comment expressing the opinion that it was appropriate to call Hagin a wolf. 5. I have now spent at least 30 minutes reading and responding to comments that where generated by your first comment about Richards testimony – and I think your first comment was out of place if your only point was that Richards language is like that of the WoF, which I find kinda absurd since Richards was ranting and raving against the WoF and I never hear WoF teachers railing in anger. Richard has a right to be angry as long as he wants to be and WoF teachers teach the doctrine of “take no offense” so they can abuse folks and they not even complain about it. 6. Debate is welcome here although no Wofers ever show up wanting to debate. I asked you to not pursue any debate with Richard because he made no doctrinal statements for you to debate and I was not going to sit here and let you debate with a man about his chosen style of testifying against the WoF. 7. I made the decision to post Richards comment but also wanted to allow you to speak up to,,, but now I wish I had just not accepted your comment. It is my choice to give Richard the choice of leaving his testimony the way it is or to re-write it. That is my prerogative, not yours. But TY for your opinion anyways. GOD BLESS YA, Damon

      By: Damon Whitsell on March 31, 2012
      at 9:24 pm

    • Graham, I am not going to enter the debate as such, but I would like to point out why I believe we can be deceived. Romans 1 highlights it, as does the bulk of Scripture. We stop worshipping God or at least God as He really is.

      Whenever we accept something that questions who God is, however subtly we deny His word, His character and His love. WOF proponents declare that if we have not received healing, wealth etc then it is because we have not claimed it. However in order to do this, you have to deny a whole lot of Scriptures; things like I am the Lord, I wound and I heal…etc.

      Obviously we accept the reasoning initially because like Job’s ‘comforters’ we want to believe that following the Lord means that we will be safe. However in doing that we forget that this is a temporal home and those who follow the Lord will suffer persecution.

      I think we also question our own ability to reason, perhaps thinking that these men and women know more than us. However that denies the truth that the Holy Spirit promises to lead us into all truth. I have noticed too that these preachers quote Scriptures and say that it says ‘something’ and unless you check the context it can appear to be so.

      However the same God, who said ‘Ask and it shall be given you’ also said ‘All things work together for our good. We cannot make a doctrine from one Scripture. Paul who was able to pray for a guy to come back to life, left Trophimas behind because he was sick.

      The Psalms and Proverbs tell us over and over again that it is only in the presence of the Lord that we get understanding. Therefore it is only in His Word and in His presence that we will get deliverance from lies.

      By: jacqui2411 on April 1, 2012
      at 9:29 am

  3. Dear Richard………you missed the love that was in my comment. And just dished back legalism just like I have experienced in my journey. I am sorry that my comment offended you…….it was a general comment about the tone….not a criticism of you or your mind and writing. I was not attacking you, and I guess if we put ourselves out in places like this we have to be able to weather the different ways of seeing that will come back at us……….i am amazed sometimes that in a nation who elevates free speech in all the world……it can be a bit of a myth……..and offense taken…or the i dont care what you think attitude and the other words are not even considered..just shot down. So bring on the debate and lets not be afraid of the fire and the robust nature of good discussion…….I dont want to argue anything other than what you say that will shed light on the WoF movement and its totally wrong aspects. The Lord bless and keep you Richard.

    By: Graham Hughes on March 31, 2012
    at 1:00 pm

    • Hi Graham, thanks for responding to Richards comments. Please do not pursue any debate with Richard. If all that will be debated is what we all agree on about the WoF, then it is pretty pointless. I TY for expressing your opinion but have to let ya know that I thought twice about posting your comments to me and Richard because while allota what you said about Richards testimony is true, I thought you was being kinda petty and protesting much over style. I think Richard is just still real hurt by the WoF. It is different to have someone you love go for false teachings than to be duped by them yourself. Both situations suck and I am not making light of your situation , I have counseled both the hurt and their spouses, but people that actually fall for this stuff have a way more hard time of getting over it. I asked to Richard to re-write the testimony if he wants to. But that it is OK to leave it the way it is too. Please respect my decision and just thank Richard for sharing, even if you find somethings wrong with the way he shared. TY

      By: Damon Whitsell on March 31, 2012
      at 2:10 pm

      • Damon, I would just like to add my two cents worth if I can regarding Richard’s testimony. Jesus told us that you cannot serve God and mammon. So anybody who puts money before God cannot be of God. it is impossible. I am not talking about people getting confused or deceived, that’s not the same thing as somebody spending their life teaching others to give into their ministry.

        Jesus said that many would come stating that they are the Christ and it it were possible they would deceive the elect. This can’t just mean cult leaders that set up in some desert, the church would not be fooled by them. It has to refer to those who come professing to be of Christ, spouting heretical lies and harming the children of God. The Bible calls these men and women Anti-Christs.

        Jesus called the Pharisees, who were the church leaders of the day, snakes, vipers, hypocrites, white-washed sepulchres filled with dead men’s bones, children of their father the devil.

        In Lamentations chapter 4, God Himself calls the daughter of Zion, which is the people of Israel worse than sea monsters and he blames the priests and shepherds who have shed the blood of the just.

        It is not pleasant to hear blunt condemnation of evil because those of us who love the Lord can’t really fathom that such evil exists within our churches. We keep wanting to believe that these men and women are really deceived. We want to think that there is hope for them because we know our own propensity to get things wrong and we attribute to them our own desire for truth and justice.

        However Jesus said by their fruits you will know them. If my life is not a life of love but a life of deceit; if I put my own desires before the desires of others; if I meddle with the Word of God to suit my own ends; if I lie and cheat not caring for those who the Lord has put in my path, then I am not of God. If I profess to be a minister of God and do these things then I am even more condemned than if I know no better. If I profess to be a prophet of the Lord and speak false words then I bring condemnation upon myself.

        It may not be easy to hear men and women described as evil or monsters but if they are deceivers then that is what they are.

        By: jacqui2411 on March 31, 2012
        at 4:14 pm

        • Hi Jacqui, I agree with everything you said. The reason I told Richard that calling Hagin a monster was uncalled for, I should have explained to him, is that most people who find this site are people who are half in and half way out of the WoF, or they are already Christians investigating WoF claims. And the testimonies are the most visited part of the site. Many who come hear are looking into understanding for the abuse they have suffered in WoF churches and some are starting to see for the first time that the WoF is indeed evil. So I think that calling one of the revered WoF teachers a monster could make someone think that those of us who are exposing this false teaching to be unreasonable and hateful – and it could delay their recovery. I personally think the man is a monster, but I would not say it unless put in the position to say so as I have here. This site is all about helping people and I just think it would have been more beneficial to identify a WoF teaching and call it monstrous, rather than calling anyone a monster. Thank you for sharing your opinion Sis.

          By: Damon Whitsell on March 31, 2012
          at 6:00 pm

          • Damon, I understand your concern. I hate confrontation and find it difficult to hear things that sound so black and white. Yet I have to wonder if a few more of us were less scared of being judgemental about evil, that maybe we would protect the innocent a little better.

            We are called to be a voice for the poor and the oppressed and it is right to declare that evil is monstrous, thereby making the perpetrators monsters.

            I think that the church has got it’s teaching backward in that we often are far more gracious to the abusers than we are to the abused.

            Your point is understandable but for some people, they have to actually hear that what happened to them happened because they were targeted by insensitive, unfeeling people who cared nothing for them. The deception continues ultimately because we just can’t believe that somebody could really hate us so much.

            For how can a people of love understand the lies of an enemy so skilled at harming and hurting that he has been able to deceive the most precious of God’s children, the innocent ones.

            I pray that the Lord will continue to highlight the lies that fill the churches and that we will begin to see a freedom come to the people of God and ultimately to the world around us. May our Lord’s kingdom and will truly be found in the earth today and may we know how much we are loved.

            By: jacqui2411 on April 1, 2012
            at 9:02 am

  4. Damon,

    I also read the comment made on what I shared by you (or the “administration”). I did feel in my heart that if I suggested that the Charismatic and Pentecostal movement was also a cult, I would have objection. I was right. However, I have come to see that there is great control there, and that it is not Jesus that leads these organisations. When I say cult that is not a condemnation upon the people involved, since God judges as to who are really his. It is just saying that people are mixed up and being controlled by lies, and that its leadership is according to man and not God. I believe God has showed me many things that I don’t think people are in a place to hear necessarily. That doesn’t mean it is wrong to share a view. However, I found it really strange to say I call names, seeing that is exactly what is done in this site. You call names against Hagin, Copeland etc and expose them as frauds. So this is nonsensical to me.

    By: dovelike on March 31, 2012
    at 6:11 am

    • Hi Richard, sorry for all the trouble man. I am short on time this morning so I have to be short. You have the option to re-write your testimony if you want to. But if you don’t feel like it, it is OK the way it is. I agree that the Pentecostal and Charismatics are a very controlling bunch. I was never a WoFers but was a charismatic for 8 months. The reason I don’t see them as a cult is because they are not very monolithic and the teaching cannot be traced back to one particular source, like as with EW Kenyon for the WoF. I have been studying cults since 85 and they just don’t meet the criteria, but your welcome to call them a cult if you want to. I just felt obligated to give my opinion like you gave yours. This site names names, it does not call names. I think calling Hagin a monster was uncalled for. But again your free to say that here as long as I am free to give a descinting opinion. I’ll keep your testimony up unless I receive another one to replace it with. I hope that sounds good. Have a blessed day brother and thank you for sharing.

      By: Damon Whitsell on March 31, 2012
      at 12:49 pm

  5. Hey Graham,
    Hi there,

    I just found your comment on my comment made yesterday. And Damon I will address you here also. I agree that my testimony if you might call it that was highly emotive. Yesterday when I wrote it I was feeling quite emotional. I think there is nothing wrong with that. But I felt it rude of you particularly Graham to say that it lacked sense or was not good writing. You were not even clear about what you meant by this, which lacks good writing and sense – to criticize without even pointing out the things you meant in any clear way. You hardly specified what was wrong with it, and yet say I was generalizing. That is generalizing itself. And it is quite senseless to say that my denouncing corrupt faith leaders as “evil” which seems to be what you are saying (although that was not worded clearly), is somehow wrong, since that is what comes across very strongly in this particular site. This whole site is strongly emotive. God is emotive. God is angry! He is angry at all of this rubbish in his name and people being harmed. And all I meant to express was that certain so-called faith leaders were evil. That was what I wanted to do which I did effectively. It was just a proclamation not intended to be an explanation. So if by lacking good writing and sense you meant that, then that is because you are judging it to a criteria no one asked me for. I don’t think therefore that my comment lacked any sense or writing ability. It is just not the kind of thing anyone here seemed really to want to hear. I only felt I had to publicly denounce them, because I listened to them at one point. That was all I meant to do. It wasn’t my intention to prove anything I was saying here, since there was a whole lot of proof provided here anyway. It was just meant to be an emotive comment.

    I did not know anything was specifically required here Damon. So it is strange that my comment should be criticised. I wasn’t trying to write a splendid refutation. That would require a whole other site. I think this one has done some good already. If however, you would like me to share more specifically and give reasons, and give a testimony that is more specific, I am happy to do so. I will rewrite it to your specifications. May I therefore request that you remove my previous comment (if possible) that I made and I will redo it. (And I really want everyone to be happy with it, so please let me redo it.)

    Richard Paulson.

    By: dovelike on March 31, 2012
    at 5:18 am

  6. I definitely a fan of this blog, having being burned by marrying someone who ascribed to this thinking, this movement and didnt even know it. It seriously has shaken me to the core, not of my faith in God but realising how much the mainstream church is permeated by this thinking. now I try to sort the man stuff, that for so long I had thought was central doctrinal stuff, and hey, I am a person a believer who didnt put his brain in the wardrobe……….and I was subtly buying into it. So I am glad for this blog.

    I wanted to comment however on Richards testimony, and this in no way reflects on the things he said or his story. As you said in the foreword, it was emotive……and thats always funny eh, you cant talk about issues like abortion or other stuff that you feel deeply about and not get emotive…BUT what I heard so much in the tone of it was exactly the tone of the people from which Richard had escaped…….the shoulds, the extreme words like ‘evil’ and have to do this…………….I appreciate that the testimony is valid for sure and I hope God blesses Richard on his journey away from the thinking that effected his life and faith…………..I do however think that there is more emotion than good writing and sense………….and I say that lovingly……….the journey away from WOF ..well in my end of the world (new zealand) will generate more words of grace and insight into what was going on, and not labels…….its a very dare I say it american political sounding testimony like the war between conservatives and liberals. I was dissapointed that it was posted without editing or help to get the real oil out of it…it undermined things a bit for me……and maybe had me wondering about the thinking of the person behind the blog not protecting the tone and content a tad more……….it just sounded like what you were exposing………..and this is obvioulsy a personal opinion……………..and nothing against Richard or you Damion………..I support exposing this BS cloaked in The Saviours garb.

    By: Graham Hughes on March 30, 2012
    at 8:57 pm

    • Hi brother Graham, I think you are correct in many of the things you have said about Richards Testimony, thanks for sharing your opinion. I read it several times to convince myself to post it. We now have around 40 testimonies and while a few of them are emotionally charged, none of them have a tone of hatred. I personally hate the WoF teachings, they killed a beloved friend of mine, and I know others who have lost friends and family to these false teachings also. But like you inferred, emoting is not the best way to fight this false teaching. When I ask people to submit testimonies I usually ask that they share their experiences and tell the people that they don’t have to get complicated and offer a big doctrinal refutation, but in Richards case, it would have been good to have those bad feelings tempered by some refutation. Richard made too many broadbrush generalizations and did not really share any personal experiences. In the end I posted the testimony because I thought, while it may turn some people off, it might have value to someone who is still seething with the pain from the WoF teachings. I considered sending it back to Richard and will probably do so, asking him to share experiences and some refutation if possible. TY for speaking up bro, Damon

      By: Damon Whitsell on March 30, 2012
      at 11:06 pm

    • Graham,

      I must make a correction. It wasn’t you that said I was generalizing, however, what’s much worse is that you said I sounded just like those I came out from! Your implied I was too condemnatory. However this is exactly what you were doing to me. All you have done is criticise me, and “lovingly” condemn me in a way. The Scripture says that he who condemns the righteous and he who justifies the wicked, both alike are an abomination to the Lord. Condemning the wicked is the righteous thing to do, and it doesn’t make me like them. It makes me free of them! It is necessary to be free of these people. One must turn the condemnation they dished out upon their own heads. So that is what I did (for my own sake) not to satisfy you palate. And what does “oil” supposed to mean? Is that very explanatory?

      By: dovelike on March 31, 2012
      at 5:35 am

  7. Just want to thank you for your website. It has been a real blessing as it helped me to understand I’m not alone. I became involved in a ministry a few years back as a volunteer. Unknown to me at the time people in the group practiced word of faith. We had prayer times every morning and people shared their beliefs. Some of the things that were shared were how your words have power to change your reality and an extreme view on belief. It someone was sick no one would say it out loud. And I saw the leader commanding things to happen. The leader of the group pushed all this on us and at first some of us stud up and said we didn’t believe in these things. But in time my friends stopped speaking up and just went with the flow. And in the end I was the only one left who disagreed.

    Then one day I came face to face with the leader who had a private chat with me in his office. The event showed me the leader’s true colors. He bad mouthed people in the group who wouldn’t agree with him and he tried to brainwash me into to doing whatever he said. It was an awful experience and I left the ministry that day because I felt the Holy spirit warned me never to go back there again.

    That was only a few months ago and I didn’t intend on being apart of word of faith in any form. The aftermath was terrible. My close friends in the group shunned me for months. I went into a state of shock and suffered post traumatic stress symptoms. Crying for Months, depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety attacks. I didn’t think I’d survive this. But thanks to your website I was able to began picking up the pieces of my life. Keep up the great work it’s saving people from despair

    By: Anne Marie Maguire (@winterdawns) on February 25, 2012
    at 4:53 pm

    • THANK YOU so much for your nice comment Anne Marie, I am so glad you got out of that spiritualy abusive situation when you did. You are so much more fortunate than those who are still in that ministry. Your healing has begun but sadly their misery has probably just started. I know one sweet young lady who moved to China to get away from the controlling Word of Faith Ministry she got involved with,,, it can be that bad! I am thankful you was rescued!

      We don’t often get comments saying that our work here matters, so your comment is real special and comes at a great time. I hope you will subscribe to this blog for as soon as I get my laptop out of the shop I am going to finish my video testimony as to why I hate the WoF and blog againts it. The “power of words”, “Confessionism” or “witchcraft vieled in Christian terms”,,, is what killed my freind. I hope you get to hear that testimony when I can get it out.

      Here is a resource post on “what is faith”. It would probably help you still.

      RECOURCE VIDEOS AND ARTICLES: (Faith in Faith/Faith is a Force) What is Faith?
      http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2010/07/17/recource-videos-and-articles-faith-in-faithfaith-is-a-force-what-is-faith/

      We have articles on just about any WoF related topic you can think of. If you need anything specifically, just let me know!

      THANKS so much again!!!
      Damon Whitsell

      By: Damon Whitsell on February 25, 2012
      at 7:58 pm

    • I’m very thankful to have found this blog.I just watched all three videos of Justin Peters on the homepage and have read some things here over the last few days.

      I’ve been a part of and influenced by the wof for nearly thirty years and needless to say my spiritual life and life in general has been a mess in so many ways.I know only the truth makes us free and it’s so refreshing to finally be hearing it;about the evils of the wof/charismatic heresies.I’ve been out of it for awhile but feel I still need healing/cleansing from all the guilt,shame and brainwashing.I plan to read alot here and have things to share.I thank the Lord so much for leading me to truth in spite of myself and praise God he still is.God Bless you my brothers and sisters!

      By: davideves on March 27, 2012
      at 4:00 am

      • Thank you for your comment David. I am happy this site was of help to you. That Justin Peters Video Series id real good. Ya know everyone I know that was WoF has had to deprogram, so hang in there. Feel free to share as much as you would like. Please also considering sharing a testimony. THANKS AGAIN

        By: Damon Whitsell on March 27, 2012
        at 4:10 am

  8. Hi Damon,

    Do not worry, Damon, I totally agree with the point you were making. Major errors must be exposed by voicing and the people who teach the errors repeatedly (not as a mere single mistake at one occasion) giving an impression as if it is the truth must be identified so that the simples become aware of the danger and remind them of what the Bible says. This is healthy and gives them opportunities to go back to the Bible. It is not a personal attack.

    I don’t disagree with everything in what Paul Coughlin was talking about. Again, I always test with what the Bible really says. Sometimes I can be too cautious and get the message wrong. But when I question what ever speakers say, I always learn from the Bible, not from the person or book. For example, I have learned that NIV changed the translation in Psalm 8:4-6. ‘he’ was replaced with ‘they’, suggesting general human beings. However, in Hebrews 2:6-10 quote the same scriptures and clearly talking about Jesus. I am confused (my Bibles are NKJV and NASV, you see?) to be honest. I will have to sort it out for myself (so thank you for giving me the opportunity to study the Bible).

    I haven’t read his book ‘No More Christian Nice Guy’ so I cannot say critiques in a definite manner. I just picked up some elements that could go a deviation of scriptures. Christian authors often use just a few scriptures and mislead the readers to their own preferable opinions or views. Readers who don’t check in the Bible often do not realize it is ideas from the world. I often find this tendency even in sermons in local evangelical churches, which override what the Bible really saying.

    Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other. (1 Cori 4:6)

    Interestingly, I came across a book review that pointed out Paul Coughlin’s scriptural weakness. It explained to me why I was uncomfortable although I agreed the overall message.

    http://www.svchapel.org/resources/book-reviews/4-christian-living/723-no-more-christian-nice-guy-by-paul-coughlin-minneapolis-bethany-house-2005-224-pp-paper-1399-

    However, they all recognize the need of strength in Christian men. The writer just suggests the danger of not being equipped with scriptures well.

    I very agreed the scriptures the writer suggested (1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1) and these scriptures simply covers all the quality Christian men would need. The Bible already has taught us in this matter. It is already there. Why Christian men need a book to learn this? To me, it looks lack of good Bible teaching in church including ‘how to study the Bible’. That’s all.

    But I know you wanted to show it through the video, which is helpful to appeal to our eyes and ears. We are living in such a technological time. So please do not get me wrong. I agree again the overall message in terms of voicing against untruth and oppression against the truth.

    I just want to thank you because of the opportunity to learn. I do not shut myself out according to my preferences unlike RJ. I see, listen, and read to exercise my discernment. And I enjoy it.

    God bless you and your work.

    Rahab

    By: rahabthecananite on January 19, 2012
    at 6:23 pm

  9. Hi Damon,

    Thank you for telling me about the video. However, that URL doesn’t seem exist anymore. It may have been removed I guess?

    Instead, I watched his ‘standing up to school bullies’ on You tube. Over all, I agreed the point that we should intervene and protect the weak. However, several points made me question.

    He quoted ‘Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty!’ as Isaiah 8 but it is actually from Psalm 8. He used the scripture to explain we are valuable. However, This passage is about Jesus and not us as a mere human being. Because the following scripture says ‘You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,’

    It is Ok to make a minor mistake because he is not a preacher (I guess?). But as a Christian, human dignity, in another word, self-esteem is opposite, destructive essence to Gospel. We are only valuable because of what Jesus did on the cross. Other than that, we are just wretched. No worth at all.

    The guy also said: we get mad when someone treats us poorly because we know we are valuable. If we see someone tries to strip other’s value, we get mad.

    Psalm 16:2 says: I say to the LORD, “You are my Lord; I have no good apart from you.”

    Scriptures tell me we are all sinners, no worth, stinky, deserve nothing good without Jesus, whether the person has power or not.

    Yes, we should be courageous to defend the vulnerable based on our faith that Jesus has conquered the world. Both the bullying and bullied have to know they are sinners. We should defend the weak and vulnerable because we love God and his mind is in us. However, what ever he explains about bullying, to me, it is simply just our SIN. What ever the reason behind, what ever the conditions of the bulling person or the bullied, it all comes from our sin.

    Husband can bully his wife, brother can bully his sister, and it could look very subtle. I even was bullied by heavily disabled people who are considered as vulnerable and weak. They are angry about their conditions and most of the cases, they are angry against God. They are vulnerable and feel sorry for the life condition but what makes them so bully is SIN. And they know what is wrong and what is right in their deep within. But they choose to please their flesh. Only way our iniquity can be healed is to repent our sins and believe Jesus can remove our sins. And He convicts our sins through scriptures, not our good conduct itself. If our kind, courageous conduct changes the world, Muslims can do that, too. They are well disciplined.

    He also said, ‘four words made into existence’. May be this is nothing to do with WoF but the misuse of scripture from Psalm 8 and the word made me think ‘is this guy influenced by charismatic teaching….? I hope not…..but here and there, I can smell a slight ‘charismatic’ teaching (I may be wrong).

    I found the video finally by the way, and watched it. I agreed the majority of the content about men’s character. I think the scriptures used apply to women too. But again a little thing made me wonder….’we want to change the world’ ‘we have a kingship and we should act like that’ but for me, only Jesus is the King. Only Jesus can change the world (through us is inclusive though)….we are his bond servants. We all know this world will be continually messed up until He returns.

    I also a bit concerned the way he presented the message….a bit focus on himself and what he did as a person. He could have focus more on Jesus to give Him Glory. Every single act and its result, Jesus is working and involved in it for His glory.

    In terms of men’s character, I don’t know from external characters. I know a Christian man who is quite outspoken and externally courageous and strong but he and his wife believed Wof and lost everything, both committed adultery, then divorced.

    The key to being courageous I think is to be equipped well with scriptures and stand firm on it, resist anything outside the truth, and die to ourselves. It is OK people treat us badly. God knows it and He is the judge. He gives us grace and strength. If someone else is treated badly, we should simply obey His words. Love God all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself.

    Thank you for the video. I want to speak out scriptures when the situation is relevant to it whether the person will like it or not. Because it is His will.

    By the way, you are right, I am woman. Thank you again for your interactions to think over our life matters and search the scriptures. Critical thinking always draw us to scripture search and it is good.

    God bless you.

    By: rahabthecananite on January 13, 2012
    at 9:12 pm

    • Hi Rahab,

      Thanks for the insightful comment again. As to the first video you watched, it sound like there is allot to disagree with on it. I would have to watch it, as this was the first time I seen or heard of the guy in the video you later watched. I subscribe to a few YouTube channels and I received that video in my inbox after I recieved RJ’s last comment (who has not commented again) and I thought it was pretty appropriate for the situation and to post for RJ. I got so excited about it that I suggested it to you when it probably was not all that important and appropriate to you. But I hope it was worth your time.

      I sometimes wonder what bible people are reading to live their Christian life under the tyranny of niceness. Scripture calls us to make Spiritual warfare, that isn’t very nice. Scripture call us to earnestly contend for the faith,, and that isn’t all that nice neither. If we do what Jesus and Paul did, we must name names and call out false teachers,,, that isn’t nice but it is biblical. What I liked about the video I posted that it showed you can be good and not be tyrannized by the necessity of niceness.

      Sorry about not approving your comment for so long. I took a few days off from the computer. I hope to hear from you again cause I appreciate your desire to be biblical in all things. The Word of God has to be our measuring rod for all things in our Christian life and walk,, especially our doctrine.

      1 Tim 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

      By: Damon Whitsell on January 19, 2012
      at 3:27 am

  10. Hi Damon,

    Have you removed RJ’s threads? Now I understand. It is waste of time and energy. They just avoid answering the Biblical questions and boast their superiority.

    ‘Any mature, wise Christian would do what we did’

    ‘You never just take another ‘man’ or ‘woman’s’ opinion’

    But their writing itself proves they go to pastors and books, not to the Bible. My questions seem to up set him but according to his words, that’s the evidence.

    I have leaned more about their behaviors. Though I am sad that my friends are likely be surrounded by this kind of people.

    Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you. (Mathew 7:6)

    I need to discern the people and the timing to depart with the above scriptures.

    Thank you for your work and do not be discouraged. Errors are errors. We need to be alert any ideas or teaching that makes us depart from the Bible.

    God bless and get well soon.

    By: rahabthecananite on January 13, 2012
    at 11:33 am

    • Hi Rahab, Thanks for this comment. Your right, it can be a waste of time and energy. I thought about emailing you (because when your comment I get your email addy) to let you know I would have to delete your comments to get rid of RJ’s litter but it dawned on me that you where getting RJ’s comments in your inbox when I approved them so I was hoping that you would put the pieces together about the mysterious WoF apologtics.

      I have some things to say as I would like to sum up RJ’s methodologies and intent (RJ is not the first RJ I have dealt with) and possibly use that and everyones comments in post to alert some folks to the game Wofers play in a blogpost. So when I get time I will tell you my observations and show the many contradictions in RJ’s comment and tell you and others why RJ won’t be hearing “good and faithful servant” on judgement day.

      I am so glad you showed up and are subscribed to the comments here. I hope this blog will be a service to you and others. It has been nice to meet you. You seem to be doctrinally sound and have a love for the Lords Word and it’s authority,,, and I love that about a person. Opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one, so they don’t mean much. It is way early here and I am going back to bed and will comment on RJ’s visit more later.

      Thanks and be more blessed
      damon

      By: Damon Whitsell on January 13, 2012
      at 12:36 pm

      • Hi Rahab, the Lord is truely good. I recieved the folowing video in my inbox and never made it back to bed yet. I thought I would share this with you and RJ. I asume because of you nickname that your a female and I don’t know if you have a good man in your life but if you don’t this will help you know what a good man is and what a passive wimp is. It is an hour long but it was the best hour long video I have wachted in a long time. When you get time can you watch it? Be as wise as a serpant and Gentle as a dove,, don’t be one or the other, be both.

        RJ, I think you could really get to know the real Jesus if you watch this video. Jesus was by far not a passive aggresive like you are,, he was no wimp or sissy, he fashioned a whip and used when he needed to. He challenged everyone who stepped out of line. He was the greatest apologist to ever live and never let truth surcumb to un-truth on his watch. He named names of false teaches and those who where cold and ruthless to others names. I ask you to watch the video because I really want the Lord to be able to say to you,,,”well done good and faithful servant” on judgement day,,, instead of you getting scolded and rebuked for your sin of ommison and not contending for the faith as Jesus did and commanded. My desire is for you to become a real Christian man like Jesus was and not have to lose rewards for becoming apostate, not doing what your supposed to do, not doing what the Lord did. Jesus was not a passive sissy or wimp and you should not be neither. I also ask you to consider what kind of soil are you when the seed of the word of God was planted in you and if that seed is still growing, because you have been in the truth before you left for the WoF and you once knew the truth and turned your back on it. Are you the kind of seed that died because of the worries of this world. In other words have you grown to care more about what men think of you than the Lord? I hope you will watch this video and have a paradim shift and be a new you.

        FROM THE VIDEO DESCRIPTION “Paul Couglin (author of No More Christian Nice Guy) speaks on the effeminate, nice and passive nature of some Christian men that is destructive to their lives and church. Instead of being nice, Coughlin stresses that men should be good. He shows Christian men are to be faithful, courageous, confrontational, brave, active, loving and protective.”

        By: Damon Whitsell on January 13, 2012
        at 2:38 pm

  11. Damon, haven’t seen u on reignscent for a long time? How come?

    By: Sally Haskett on January 2, 2012
    at 4:41 pm

    • Hi Sally, Focebook got to eating up all my time and things piled up on me so I quit a bunch of my groups on FB. I have been thinking about poppingt in and saying Hi to everyone. I miss the fellowship with some of the folks there. Right now my laptop is in the shop so i don’t get to stay online as much,,, but maybe I’ll see you soon. God Bless, damon

      By: Damon Whitsell on January 2, 2012
      at 10:02 pm

  12. Your biblical scholarship is lacking. The Bible does not talk at all about gay and lesbian people in committed loving relationships at all. The word homosexual didn’t exist in English until the 1800′s. Please do your homework and stop codemining Christians who do not read the Bible as the literal inherrant word of God. It is a spiritual book, not a moral code for the 21st century, or a history book. Did you know that there are 3 biblical passages where Paul says he speaks for himself, not of the Lord, on certain matters? Jesus didn’t address homosexuality, so we know it isn’t central to his teachings. He did speak very directly about divorce though, and if you are a literalist, it leaves no room for interpretation. So, if you want to approach scripture from a fundamentalist point of view, many Christains are adulterers because they have divorced and remarried. You should start pointing your finger at all the churches that accept remarried adulterers, but then most fundamentalist churches would have to turn on themselves.

    By: Shawn Reynolds on December 10, 2011
    at 11:00 pm

  13. Loved the video “Ex=WoF Testimony of Cole Brown: LIES MY PASTOR TOLD ME”. I’m pretty demonstrative in my worship, and pray I do not condemn others who are more conservation.

    By: philadelphiamtc on July 22, 2011
    at 5:57 am

  14. Comment to Bob Scruggs testimony:
    What a wonderful and encouraging testimony. So often the hurt, pain and disillusion that comes with the realization that you’ve been duped and deceived over shadows the actual fact that it was God delivered you out of it in the first place. Thankfully in His grace and mercy He gives us time and space to heal , recover and get our Spiritual bearings. Thanks for sharing this and God bless.

    By: hoot1926 on January 16, 2011
    at 10:47 pm

  15. I was sent that very picture earlier and know of a couple people who are watching over this latest fiasco. I watched a video and it looked like the crowd there was pretty thin.

    It would not surprise me to find this pic is a fraud. It doesn’t even look like lightening, but it is the way of the false prophetic to find a method at least appear genuine. Lies upon lies.

    Thanks! :)

    By: mkayla on October 12, 2010
    at 2:32 am

    • Your welcome MKayla. Someone showed the picture to me. So I have to say again, thanks to Pat.

      By: Damon Whitsell on October 12, 2010
      at 2:41 am

      • Hey, thanks Damon, but I’m sure someone would have seen it sooner or later it’s pretty obvious lol. I don’t think the pic. is fake, I do however think it’s a bad pic. with poor lighting, movement etc. if they were going to fake it I would think they would have put an angelic image instead of one that looks demonic…you know some angel, like maybe Emma ….lol….just sayin. God bless and thanks for all you do.

        By: hoot1926 on October 12, 2010
        at 10:04 pm

        • Thank you for all the nice words and deeds from you and Mike. I agree with you.

          My friend was into photography and at first he took all kinds of bad photos that has all kinds of weird stuff on them.

          By: Damon Whitsell on October 13, 2010
          at 12:43 am

  16. I READ THE POST BY DAMON WHICH WAS EXCELLENT.BUT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IS, WHAT CAN YOU SAY TO SOMEONE WHO ALWAYS HAS AN ANSWER FOR EVERYTHING YOU SAY. OUR DAUGHTER & UNFORTUNATELY 3 GRANDCHILDREN ATTEND A CHURCH WITH WO FO LEANINGS,I BELIEVE DAVID HOGAN HAS DONE SOME PREACHING THERE ALSO.(RAISING PEOPLE FROM THE DEAD?) SURE HE DOES!! BUT HER RELIGIOUS BELIEFS HAVE PRETTY MUCH DISINTEGRATED THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HER AND US. SHE SEEMS TO THINK HER CHURCH FAMILY SHOULD COME BEFORE US, & OBVIOUSLY WE DO NOT. ANOTHER COMPLICATING FACTOR IS THE HUSBAND HAS ALWAYS BEEN VERY CONTROLLING, WHICH COULD BE PART OF THE REASON FOR HER BEING PUSHED TOWARD THIS CHURCH.BUT IT IS HAS BEEN A VERY SAD THING TO SEE THIS RELATIONSHIP PRETTY MUCH DESTROYED BECAUSE OF HER BELIEFS. IT SEEMS TO US THAT SHE HAS CULT-LIKE BELIEFS. WELL ANYWAY, WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY ADVICE OR COMMENTS. THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

    By: pr777 on October 3, 2010
    at 8:11 pm

    • Hello PR777,

      Thanks for letting me know that you enjoyed something I posted here on this blog. I will give you my opinion about the things you brought up. I hope it will help.

      “WHAT CAN YOU SAY TO SOMEONE WHO ALWAYS HAS AN ANSWER FOR EVERYTHING YOU SAY”

      I think the answer to your question here is very simple, but one of a heavy burden. If she has an answer for everything you say, the only thing you can do is show her where her answers are wrong and in some cases are not really answers at all. It seems to you that she has cult like beliefs because she does. Having studied cults for most of my adult life I can say that cults practice thought control methods such as loading the language (redefining terms and creating new ones) and using thought terminating Cliches. An example of a thought terminating cliché is if you go to someone who is teaching a false teaching and question them about it, they will say something like ‘God works in mysterious ways”. WELL YEH, but that does not address the possibility that they might be teaching a false teaching. All this statement is meant to do is dismiss your concerns without even addressing them because, after all, “God does somethings that are not understandable, and we are not to question these things but walk by faith”. So if she is using thought Terminating Clichés (or if they are being used on her), they need to be pointed out.

      If the answers that she gives are not biblical, that has to be pointed out also. Therefore, if you want to help her, you have to be well acquainted with essential Christian doctrine and you will also need to know how to counter WoF doctrines and arguments. This is burdensome because to be of help to people in the WoF you have to submerse yourself in WoF teachings and you have to know how to refute them biblically.

      I see that you have two choices concerning your daughter. You can either pray that the Lord will guide her into all truth, or you can pray and also become actively involved in educating yourself so that you can be used of the Lord to help guide her to truth.

      “BUT HER RELIGIOUS BELIEFS HAVE PRETTY MUCH DISINTEGRATED THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HER AND US. SHE SEEMS TO THINK HER CHURCH FAMILY SHOULD COME BEFORE US, & OBVIOUSLY WE DO NOT”

      She seems to think that her church family should come before ya’ll because that is what she is taught. The intent is to separate her from friends and family that are not WoF, that is what Cults do. Isolation and an US verses THEM mentality is practiced in all cults. I will tell you a short story to exemplify this.

      I have debated WoFers off and on for awhile at Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry Forums. There is one WoFer that coined a term to replace and supersede the common charismatic term “full gospel”. CARM recently closed their old forums and opened new ones, so I am not able to look the term up and he is not willing to restate the term because he is keen that I would us it to write an article showing the WoF US verse THEM mentality. But generally his new term says something similar to the “complete Gospel” indicating that it is more full than the “full gospel“ of Charismatics and Pentecostals. I had a misinformed AOG preacher tell me that WoF is nothing more than an extreme form of Pentecostalism. But hard core WoF apologists make no bones about it that distinctive WoF doctrines make the WoF more Charismatic and Pentecostal than the Charismatics and Pentecostals. They claim WoF is the newer and higher revelation from God and that the Charsimatic and Pentecostal movements where stepping stones to the WoF. So if the WoFers see the Charsimatics and Pentecostals as not having the full truth, imagine what they think of mainline denominational Christians. I can tell you what they think. They say demoninational churches are spiritually dead and cold, that seminaries are cemeteries, and if a denominational preacher has a PHD, it means Post Hole Digger. So you are defiantly facing an US verses THEM situation.

      Also you should be aware of the cultic practice of Love Bombing. If you have not heard the term it is pretty self explanatory. Here is an example. If your daughters friends at the WoF leaning Church hear that her family is trying to convince her that the WoF is wrong, they will go out of their way to show your daughter love and compassion (even though it is contrived). So you should never be ashamed to shower your daughter with the love you have for her. I would encourage you to do so.

      “ANOTHER COMPLICATING FACTOR IS THE HUSBAND HAS ALWAYS BEEN VERY CONTROLLING, WHICH COULD BE PART OF THE REASON FOR HER BEING PUSHED TOWARD THIS CHURCH.”

      Studying cults will lead you to the conclusion that “control freak, narcissistic personality types’ are very prominent in cults, especially in leadership positions. When people are in a system of control, they are very controlling. I cannot give you any advice about this, just be aware that the WoF is cultic and is a system of control.

      I’ll be happy to assist you in anyway I can. If you can identify which WoF teachings you think you need to learn to defend against, I can dig up some references on this blog on any topic related to the WoF. We also have a support/recovery group forum here (http://wordoffaithrecovery.net/). If you go there, you will find others that can help you including Ex-WoFers, some who are coming out of the WoF, and some who are trying to help lead their loved ones out of the WoF. You will find help, support and encouragement there. I hope you will visit us and that something I have said here will help you.

      May the Lord bless you for your love for your daughter
      damon

      By: Damon Whitsell on October 3, 2010
      at 10:17 pm

      • DAMON,THANKYOU FOR THE ADVICE I WILL TRY & PUT IT TO GOOD USE,BUT I HAVE A FEELING THAT WE MAY BE PAST THE POINT OF NO RETURN WITH LITTLE OR NO COMMUNICATION. ONE MORE THING,WHAT EXACTLY IS YOUR BACKGROUND AS FAR AS COUNSELING PEOPLE ON THESE ISSUES? GOD BLESS, PAUL

        By: pr777 on October 8, 2010
        at 9:09 pm

        • Hello Paul, I am having a busy day and will respond to your post this evening. God Bless, damon

          By: Damon Whitsell on October 8, 2010
          at 10:35 pm

          • Hi Paul, sorry I did not get back to you yesterday.

            I’m sorry to hear that your not having much contact with your daughter. Keep your head up and keep praying.

            I can’t say that I have counseled a whole lot of people concerning the WoF. A few people have asked things in this comment section and I have dug up resources for them and given advice – but I never really thought of it as counseling. In the past I have counseled some people concerning mental health issues, cult apologetics and essential Christian doctrines – mostly to new Christians. But I do think I am about as qualified as anyone else, except for the professionals, to speak, help and advice people of the WoF because of my experience. I have never actually been WoF but I was in a charismatic church in 85-86 and have studied cults ever since because I have family members that are in the Mormons, Oneness Pentecostals, Bible Missionary and the WoF cults. And I have studied the WoF intensely for about two years since my friend got shot and paralyzed following the WoF (my testimony is on the testimony page). I have made over 450 post here and I read probably two or three articles for everyone that I post. I have debated WoFers, written about 15 articles and have met more than two dozen ex-Wofers and know some of them really well. So I guess I am more qualified than most (except for ex-wofers). And it would be a shame if the info in my head did not help others. :)

            God Bless you and your wife
            damon

            By: Damon Whitsell on October 9, 2010
            at 9:51 pm

        • I HAVE A FEELING THAT WE MAY BE PAST THE POINT OF NO RETURN WITH LITTLE OR NO COMMUNICATION.

          Paul,
          I followed the Wof movement for decades and searched without finding out why the WoF was incorrect. I keep searching and the key that showed me the WoF was not of God is because the WoF message does not teach us to die to ourselves so He can live in us. Or essentially deny ourself and pick up our cross and follow Him. Anyone who is born again has died to self and the point of return took 29 years for me when I found out this error of the faith message. There is no point of return for a christian who seeks the truth,
          Ken

          (Hi Ken, Thanks for leaving encouraging words and helpful info for commentators but your comment was way to long for these threaded comment threads so I had to remove some of it. Damon)

          By: 222ken222 on October 11, 2010
          at 12:18 am

  17. Hi. This article/testimony by Kevin Reeves has some valuable information in it. Thanks for putting it up here. It did me good to read it even tho I know the truth. I linked to it on my blog as I very much appreciated what he had to say in encouraging words at the end. It does get easier as we become more immersed in the word.

    God bless and be well.

    By: mkayla on September 27, 2010
    at 4:12 am

    • Thank you very much Mkayla, That is one of the best testimonies we have on this site. Mike and Pat down below (hoot1926) started their journey out of the WoF when they read Kevin Reeves book and as you said this article is packed with encouragement, good info and advice. I hope the testimony will be of help to someone who visits your blog. Thanks again and God Bless.

      By: Damon Whitsell on September 27, 2010
      at 4:18 am

  18. Hey Damon!!!!! Just looked at your post by Kevin Reeves. Didn’t know he had a site, I’m sooooo excited!!!!! Thank you for finding it. That’s the book that started our journey out. Looking forward to checking it out. Thank you again for being such a blessing to us both. We keep you in our prayers always, we know it’s not an easy road we’re on. God Bless :)

    By: hoot1926 on September 22, 2010
    at 7:13 pm

    • I am so glad I could be of help to you guys. Both of you sure have been a great blessing to me. It is a pleasure to get to know you a little and Pat has really been the driving force of most of what is said over at the recovery forums. She greets everyone very promptly and I appreciate that so very much!!! Sometimes I read new post over there and just feel like I cannot respond right then. I will be praying for you guys also. I think ya’ll deserve great blessings from the Lord for all you guys have done for me. THANKS!!

      By: Damon Whitsell on September 22, 2010
      at 7:37 pm

  19. Hey, excellent article on Joyce M., I was never a BIG follower, but I did think that she was pretty good at one time. Then when I started looking into WoF I was shocked to see her on the list, but by that time I was so driven to get back to just the true Word of God that it didn’t phase me to much. Thanks for the post, you really don’t hear alot about her deceptive teachings and it’s good that you’ve put it out there. :)

    By: hoot1926 on September 1, 2010
    at 12:23 am

    • Hi Mike,,, I think Joyce and Joel are the most dangerous WoF teachers out there because most Non-WoFers see them as Non-WoF. But they do teach WoF distinctives. It is sad that so many mainliners think Joel and Joyce are the best thing since sliced bread,,, not noticing the leaven.

      I found a blog that is focused on Joyce Meyers. It only has one post but it is a great review of one of her books. The owner says he will be making more post. I HOPE SO

      By: Damon Whitsell on September 1, 2010
      at 2:40 pm

  20. Hello,
    Please see attached some thoughrs on Kenneth Hagin.
    The truth of the cross.
    http://www.freewebs.com/truthofthecross/thecrossisdenial.htm

    ….Kenneth Hagin of the faith movement says the cross is defeat

    Forgotten Word Ministries:
    Kenneth Hagin False Prophet/Teacher
    http://www.forgottenword.org/hagin.html
    …”The trouble with us is that we’ve preached a ‘cross’ religion, and we need to preach a ‘throne’ religion. By that I mean that people have thought they were supposed to remain at the cross. Some have received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, have backed up to the cross, and have stayed there ever since…The cross is actually a place of defeat, whereas the Resurrection is a place of triumph. When you preach the cross, you’re preaching death, and you leave people in death.” (Ken Hagin, “The Believer’s Authority,” page 16. Second Edition 1986)…

    The cross is a place where we die with Christ then we can live the resurrected life daily. But without dying daily or as Jesus said deny our self daily we cannot live the resurrected life. Denying our self daily is our cross and then Jesus can live in us and we have the resurrected life. Denying the cross as Kenneth Hagin did allowed a resurrected life for Kenneth Hagin but not a Godly resurrected life but a false resurrected life filled with another spirit.

    ***

    Note: After reviewing my thoughts please see the guestbook discussions about Kenneth Hagin words being taken out of contex.

    ***

    The cross is a Christian focus. Jesus and Paul and many scriptures talk about the cross and the power of God, as being only what Paul will hear of, being the only salvation, life, love …Etc a Christian will know of.

    1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God

    1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

    Mt 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me

    1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
    …

    By: 111ken111 on August 21, 2010
    at 2:12 pm

  21. Your post with Pastor Ed Watson is absolutley excellent. Going to listen to it again and then probably again, lots of really great information and scripture that simply and clearly refutes WoF. Thank you.

    By: hoot1926 on August 9, 2010
    at 10:35 am

    • YW and Thanks Mike. Yeh, Watson did a great job on that sermon. I have listened to it three times now. I think I am going to contact Watson to see if he has anymore WoF material that he would like to share.

      By: Damon Whitsell on August 9, 2010
      at 10:54 am

  22. Your lastest post “Positive Confession, Positive Mental Attitude, The Prosperity Gospel and The New Age”, is excellent. Really shows the magnitude and severity of the difficulties in trying to reach others who are into this with the prue simple gospel message. They are convinced they already have it, wow. Thanks I’m using this :) BTW really enjoying the recovery site. God Bless you, Pat

    By: hoot1926 on July 23, 2010
    at 1:54 am

    • Thank you for your comment and blessings, Pat. It is saddening that so many Christians are essentially practicing the occult and calling it Christianity. I just got through reading two Kenneth Copeland “partner letters”. Positive confession was interweaved all through it. And of course they both focus on THE BLESSING. Even going so far as to say that the reason for the cross was to secure THE BLESSING of Abraham for us. Not a single mention of the Cross of our Lord saving us from the power and penalty of sin. It is because so many are essentially practicing witchcraft, while thinking they are living out biblical doctrine, that I focus on the WoF. I think the WoF is more dangerous to the Body of Christ than the threat of the traditional cults, like Mormons and JW’s etc.

      I am praying that the recovery forums will take off and be of help to people. Maybe it will be Gods will for them at this time. I’m not good at hearing the voice of God concerning His will about specific things. I just try to do what I feel I am being led to do and give Him a chance to work. So I committed to keep the forums up for 6 months to see what happens. May it be his will to grow them.

      God bless you and Mike
      damon

      By: Damon Whitsell on July 23, 2010
      at 9:24 am

  23. Thank you for posting Justin Peters, love his delivery and sooo wish I had half his poise, love and control. Been a rough few weeks for Mr. hoot and I. Learning to roll with the punches of those we love and were once in close relationship with. Keep us in prayer as it has been a learning lesson for us and at times difficult not to “throw down” as they say, and at time we have, to our regret. We are moving on in our little facebook group, we have posted tons of info. from sites such as yours, and now we are to the point of …..OK we know their false ….now what??? Not that we won’t continue to post current info. and continue to watch, but after you watch so many you tube video’s of “legs growing out” and people that look more like they need to be in a straight jacket rather than on a church stage, you kinds start to wonder where you go from here? We have started to meet with another couple, and the wife is a new christian, I asked her how long she had been saved and she looked at me and said….
    “Well I’m not really sure that I am, because someone told me I had to speak in tongues to be saved.” AHHHHHHHH! Pray for us and God so bless you for all you have done.

    By: hoot1926 on July 13, 2010
    at 10:22 pm

    • I do admire Justins demeanor also. He seems to be such a gentle man. It is true what the bible teaches that suffering produces character. Can you imagine JP if he was totally healthy from birth. I am sure he would be a different person.

      Ya know,,, this blog has been getting allota hits from a facebook account. But because facebook makes you confirm that you want to leave facebook when you click on links to leave the site, I cannot trace the pingbacks to the exact page. So it is great to hear that they are coming from you and Mrs. Hoot. JFI,,, we probably average about 5-6 hits a day from that facebook posting. So your efforts seem to be helping folks. Thanks for doing the facebook page.

      If you give me an address i will be glad to put ya’lls facebook in our blogroll.

      You can’t be saved unless you speak in tongues? I remember when that happened to me the first time. I sure hope you and Mrs. hoot where able to help those poor people out and show them that believers are saved to eternal life when they believe in what Jesus has done for us, and that people are baptized in the HS when they believe. It would have saved me from 5 years of wondering in the world without a church, if I knew someone that could have helped me when I was told I was not saved. But I am a better person now because of it. Someone eventually showed me how to study the Bible properly and now I can feed myself. It is my hope and prayer that you and Mrs. hoot also become self feeders. It is harder to be deceived if your not relying on others to tell you what God has said to us. I also pray that God will use your experience to help others.

      Thanks for visiting again and your very nice compliments. It is nice when encouragement comes. SO THANKS. You guys are a blessing to me :)

      By: Damon Whitsell on July 14, 2010
      at 12:22 am

  24. Hey, wanted to let you know, we are still around, always enjoy your posts, very helpful. Blessings to you.

    By: hoot1926 on June 23, 2010
    at 2:28 pm

    • Hello there mr. and mrs. Hoot. I am glad your still enjoying the blog. I have been having a hard time finding stuff that is good and post worthy but still do sometimes. I am thankful that the posting is still being enjoyed and helping people. THANKS for dropping by and letting us know. GOD BLESS damon

      By: Damon Whitsell on June 23, 2010
      at 2:51 pm

  25. Yeah, that helps.

    Thanks. God Bless.

    By: schildan on June 13, 2010
    at 8:41 pm

    • Your Welcome schildan,,, PapaG’s sermon is really good. Please feel free to drop by and comment anytime. THANKS

      By: Damon Whitsell on June 14, 2010
      at 3:03 am

  26. You’re right: God has never used anyone to move a mountain. I’m just saying He could if He wanted to. He’s used them to do other incredible things, like raise the dead (Elisha).

    But I want to stress that I am AGAINST the word of faith movement. I do not expect that God will ever use me to do a miracle (although He could), and this does not mean my faith is weak. It means God is in the drivers seat, and He gets to decide when miracles occur. I don’t.

    By: schildan on June 13, 2010
    at 1:13 pm

    • Hi schildan,,,, I agree that God could move a mountain and he could use a man to do it. Perhaps the article PapaG posted will give you a new perspective of the verses in question.

      Thanks for visiting

      By: Damon Whitsell on June 13, 2010
      at 4:01 pm

    • You are that mountain Schildan, I am too. Christ came into our lives and through this same mediator between God and man, a mountain of sin has been removed, by His stripes I am healed. He didn’t come to make bad men good, he came to make dead men live. Amen? Keep coming back brother.

      By: papagiorgio200 on June 13, 2010
      at 7:11 pm

  27. I believe that the word of faith message is clearly wrong. However, I do not believe Jesus was speaking in Hyperbole when he said we could move a mountain. The problem, is we humans think we can simply “decide” to move a mountain, and if we “believe” it hard enough it will happen. But true belief is not equivelant to will power. Belief is given by God. The way a mountain gets moved is as follows. God decides he wants to move the mountain. God decides he wants to use a certain person to do it. Then He gives them the faith to do so.

    You see, the reason mountains don’t get moved is not because we are not “faithful” enough, it’s because it’s not part of God’s will, and no amount of “will power” on our part will change God’s will. God is in the driver’s seat. That much is clear from scripture. It is not up to us to tell God how to use us to serve Him. It’s up to us to follow His lead or suffer the consequences.

    So, I agree that the word of faith people are wrong on the “mountain moving” passage, but not because God is unable to use people to literally move mountains if he so desires. He’s the one who created mountains.

    God often chooses us to undergo hardships (see the book of Job). But our faith is still powerful, and entire He is still in control.

    By: schildan on June 13, 2010
    at 4:01 am

  28. I appreciate the message on suffering Christians. Even tho I know this by experience, it is encouraging to be reminded by someone else.

    God bless you all.

    By: mkayla on June 8, 2010
    at 7:53 pm

    • Your welcome and THANKS Mkayla. I am always glad to hear that someone benefited from something posted here on this blog. I hope your readers are also reminded that we live in a fallen world and people will indiscriminately suffer. The worst part of the prosperity gospel is that it eventually lets people down and then puts the blame on them. When suffering strikes, they not only have to deal with the kind of questions we all do, but they also have to carry the burden many times. This is tragic.

      God Bless ya Mkayla
      damon

      By: Damon Whitsell on June 8, 2010
      at 11:39 pm

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