http://closing-stages.blogspot.com/2010/07/testimonial.html

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My wife Pat and I left the Defiance Ohio area and moved to Bellefontaine to start and build a church. That was six years ago, and now looking back I see that the whole time we were trying to build a church God was tearing us down. He was bringing us back to our foundational roots we didn’t even realize we had left. During the four years we pastured, a lot of the old convictions God had instilled in me as a young Christian, convictions I had let go, were resurfacing. This became a serious problem in our ministry as we were heavily influenced by Word of Faith ideology. Conflict began to rise up with our Ministry coverings. We were ordained by CMI (Calvary Ministries International) and Restoration Ministries. Frustration built within Pat and I over the lack of any real relational support and a constant pressure of supporting our coverings financially. To them we were indigenous, that is, on your own. Ultimately, we left both Ministries and became independent. Biblical conviction overruled, and we were left with some hard decisions. And almost immediately after withdrawing from the last covering God saw fit to place hard circumstances in our path that lead us to the decision to close the church.

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. Acts 20:29-32

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1 Timothy 4:1

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, colossians 2:18

Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-92) was England’s best-known preacher for most of the second half of the nineteenth century. In 1854, just four years after his conversion, Spurgeon, then only 20, became pastor of London’s famed New Park Street Church (formerly pastored by the famous Baptist theologian John Gill). The congregation quickly outgrew their building, moved to Exeter Hall, then to Surrey Music Hall. In these venues Spurgeon frequently preached to audiences numbering more than 10,000—all in the days before electronic amplification. In 1861 the congregation moved permanently to the newly constructed Metropolitan Tabernacle.

I cannot say enough about the quality of teaching that Jeff has shared with this blog and it’s visitors. You will be extremely blessed if you visit Jeffs RETURNINGKING.COM.

Jeff has turned two of his teaching series into books. The Returning King and Spirit World. And since the books are essentially his article series, both books are available for FREE READING. And he is now finishing up the book Wolves in Wool which comes from his article and video series that is on this blog. Jeff is currently doing two new video series called “The Gospel Truth” and “Interpreting the Bible“. He also has a couple of other completed video teaching series.

And you can watch these teaching series as they are streamed live at  

Which is essentially an online TV channel for services at the church Jeff pastors, First Baptist Church Needville TX, USA – www.fbcneedville.org

As you can see there are many reasons to visit and bookmark Jeff’s blog RETURNINGKING.COM.

I have really enjoyed brother Jeffs teachings. I hope you do also. Jeff really does a good job on the subject of Faith in the following video.

Wolves in Wool 3 – Faith, the Omnipotent Entity from Jeff Kluttz on Vimeo.

“They’.. label the ‘Word of faith’ as a ‘movement’…but the Gospel is the Word of Faith..according to the Apostle Paul”

This is part of a comment I received at YouTube. You can see the larger quote and my article and video response to this claim here.

We must be careful when we read. This statement is evidence of this. It would be totally correct to say “The Word of Faith is the Gospel”. But to say “the Gospel is the Word of Faith” is rank heresy and a total inversion and perversion of what Scripture teaches.

This video clearly portrays the Gospel. ALL OF THE GOSPEL. (ie. the “Full Gospel”).

Q&A with Alan Cairns are brief, straightforward, Bible-based, video answers presented in a conversational format that deal with a broad range of difficult questions that face Christians today

When talk show host Oprah Winfrey so much as spits on a book it immediately catches fire. The ashes can so much as sell for a lump sum that can earn you enough money for  an early retirement. In 2006 an Australian Rhonda Byrne got much more than she bargained for when she wrote the New Age self help book, The Secret.  Her book did not get spat on. No. The book got featured not once but twice on the Oprah Winfrey show and (wait for this) by the Spring of 2007 the book had sold almost 4 million copies, and the DVD had sold more than 2 million copies. Byrne was listed among Time Magazine’s list of 100 people who shaped the world in 2007.

Byrne writes, “Disease cannot live in a body that is in a healthy emotional state.” But be warned: “If you have a disease and you are focusing on it and talking to people about it, you are going to create more disease cells.” The tenet of the book is that an individual’s focused positive thinking can result in life-changing results such as increased wealth, health, happiness and more.

Wait a minute that sounds so much like Word of Faith you say. Isn’t that what modern day evangelicals are doing these days? The health, wealth and prosperity gospel is synonymous with the Word of Faith theology which is perhaps the fastest brand of Christianity with about 147 million followers in Africa (according to Christianity Today magazine). They make up more than a fourth of Nigeria’s population, more than a third of South Africa’s, and a whopping 56 percent of Kenya’s.

“One of the greatest distinguishing marks of a false prophet is that he will always tell you what you want to hear, he will never rain on your parade, he will get you clapping, he will get you jumping, he will make you dizzy, he will keep you entertained, & he will present a Christianity to you that will make your church look like a Six Flags over Jesus.” -Paul Washer

Through faith and positive confession, so goes the ideology, we can obtain anything we want — health, wealth, success, or whatever we please. The formula is simply: “Say it, Do it, Receive it, and Tell it.” Rhonda on the other hand explains that this New Age technique is the law of attraction, which is the principle that “like attracts like.” Rhonda calls it “the most powerful law in the universe.” The principle is that we create our own circumstances by the choices we make in life. And the choices we make are fuelled by our thoughts—which means our thoughts are the most powerful things we have here on earth.

Word of faith allegations are heretical and differ from Biblical orthodoxy. God wants you to be rich is the mantra. “He [also] wants His children to eat the best, He wants them to wear the best clothing, He wants them to drive the best cars, and He wants them to have the best of everything.”  ”That’s the reason why I drive a Rolls Royce,” boasts a mega church pastor.

The twisting of scripture to approve materialism gets from sad to worrying and eventually totally depraved. No, depraved indifference is the best description. “Financial prosperity is just as much a part of the Gospel as anything else…and I’m going to tell you something right now. I’m with the Apostle Paul in Romans chapter one: I’m not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ…I’m not ashamed of prosperity. I’m not ashamed that Jesus bought and paid for me to be wealthy….Let me just tell you from the heart of God, preachers are supposed to be rich,” said another prominent pastor.

“It’s a matter of your faith. You got one-dollar faith, and you ask for a ten thousand-dollar item, it ain’t gonna work. It won’t work. Jesus said, “According to your faith”, not “according to His will, if He can work it into His busy schedule.” He said, “according to your faith be it unto you.” Now I may want a Rolls Royce and don’t have but bicycle faith. Guess what I’m gonna get? A bicycle” -(Frederick K.C. Price, “Praise the Lord” broadcast on TBN, 21 September 1990, taken from Documentation for Christianity in Crisis by Hank Hanegraaff)

It’s not that often that Christian books are bestsellers in both religious and secular circles. What? Not after what was highlighted in Foxe’s Book of Martyrs by John Foxe first published in 1563. It was a spine chilling fly on the wall account of all the persecution and Christian deaths and martyrdom throughout Western history from the first century through the early sixteenth centuries. The early followers of Christ were left to preach an offensive gospel. One that proclaimed that all men were sinners and had broken God’s Laws and that the Gospel is the news that Jesus Christ, the Righteous One, died for our sins on a cross and rose again, eternally triumphant. That there is now no condemnation for those who repent and believe, but only everlasting joy. This message of the cross became a stumbling block to the Jews and and an offense to the Gentiles. Persecution has always been the portion of the godly. Perhaps some may argue that the Christian life is a wonderful plan because God works all things out for the good of those who love Him (Romans 8:28). That fact is wonderful in the truest sense of the word. No matter what happens to a Christian, he can rejoice because of that promise. No book so profoundly influenced early Protestant sentiment as Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. It still is more than a record of persecution. Kept in the back shelves of most church book stores and is even considered volatile by some store owners. How times have changed.  Foxes’ Book of Martyrs has however been replaced by Joel Osteen’s multi-million Best seller- Your Best Life Now.

Joel Osteen is the Word of Faith pastor of America’s largest church, Lakewood Church, in Houston Texas. With attendances staggering to over 43,000 per sunday and television broad casts to over 7 million viewers in 100 countries, Mr Osteen is usually referred to as “America’s pastor”, “Prosperity Gospel’s Cover Boy” or “Mr Nice Guy” and in Hollywood circles because of his ever smiling face there’s an adage that goes, “And on the eighth day God created Osteen”. As the face of a new form of Christianity, Gospel lite, he never courts controversy, Joel has admitted he never preaches about sin, hell or judgement but rather the emphasis of his ministry is maintaining a positive outlook on life rather than a right relationship with God. Your Best Life Now outlines simple motivational principles to life enhancement and achieving “your full potential” for any one and every body. The methodology remains just like in Rhonda Byrne’s New Age doctrine: visualisation, faith or believe you can achieve it and confession.

According to the Christian Sentinel, Joel lists Kenneth Hagin Sr., Tommy Tenney, C. Peter Wagner, and Joyce Meyer as his notable inspirational mentors. To begin with, Kenneth Hagin Sr. popularised Word of faith movement but his own mentor was a man known as the father of the Word faith movement Mr. Essek William Kenyon.  Mr E.W. Kenyon studied at the Emerson College of Oratory in Boston which was a hotbed at the time for the emerging New Age thought where a rudimentary Christianised version of the occultism was birthed. There you have it! Word of Faith is a form of Christianised New age-ism.

In the 1930s Kenneth Hagin Sr added E.W Kenyon’s teachings to his Pentecostal beliefs to create the full fledged “Word of Faith” and “Rhema” movements and taught that Christians could get rich by mustering enough faith. “Say it, do it, receive it, tell it,” he said. He touted this “Rhema doctrine,” which held that words spoken in faith must be fulfilled, spawning slogans like “name it and claim it.”

“God wants to increase you financially, by giving you promotions, fresh ideas and creativity”, Osteen promises just like Hagin Sr and Rhonda. Without qualification, he declares that all of us are destined for greatness of every kind: “You were born to win; you were born for greatness, you were created to be a champion in life”.  “He wants you to live in abundance.  He wants to give you the desires of your heart…God is turning things around in your favour”.   As a matter of fact, apparently irrespective of our relationship with God, “Before we were ever formed, He programmed us to live abundant lives, to be happy, healthy, and whole.  But when our thinking becomes contaminated it is no longer in line with God’s Word”. Do not for a moment think “God’s Word” means the Bible. In Word of Faith lingo the “God’s word” or “rhema” or “the word” is synonymous with your visualised desire that becomes your positive confession.

There’s more to the allegory, Osteen promises, “God wants you to live an overcoming life of victory.  He doesn’t want you to barely get by.  He’s called El Shaddai, ‘the God of more than enough’”.  While on the contrary: El Shaddai is a title used for our Lord in the Old Testament which is often translated “God Almighty.”  It speaks of the all sufficiency of God, and is a special title of reverence. Osteen is honest enough to say his views are not drawn from scripture but from other peoples’ experiences and his own.

The creative power of thought is now receiving increasing acceptance in the West, which is in some cases taking over, and in others, discovering anew, for itself, what was thought by the ancients in India. Because they have discovered it anew, they call it “New Thought”; but its fundamental principle is as old as the Upanishads which said, “what you think that you become”. All recognize this principle in the limited form that a man who thinks good becomes good, and he who is ever harboring bad thought becomes bad. But the Indian and “New Thought” doctrine is more profound than this. In Vedantic India, thought has been ever held creative. The world is a creation of the thought (Cit Shakti associated with Maya Shakti) of the Lord (Ishvara and Ishvari)

- Arthur Avalon, “Shakti as Mantra,” Shakti and Shâkta, 1918

Joel promises the same thing as Rhonda. A few years ago, The Secret was drawing cheers and even some jeers. The cheers were for the theory’s emphasis on positive thinking and living your best life through the idea of the law of attraction—but criticism arose because some believed people would use The Secret to focus more on obtaining material possessions. But this was quickly swept under the carpet.

To be honest, Word of Faith usually draws numerous coverts and most of the evangelical churches with Word of Faith inclination always manifest with exponential growth in numbers. The message is popular and every one is seeking to improve their lives,  enhance their prospects, become successful and become master of their own destiny.  Man becomes his own master (a little god) just like in New Age. One then asks how genuine are the new Christian converts to such churches? I do not know is the answer. How sound is the foundational teaching such new converts receive? Nothing if any. Many conservative evangelicals  are question the need for Word of Faith ministers to live in great luxury, demanding millions of pounds for an ever-increasing and never ending number of projects, some of which never materialise. Joel Osteen’s Your Best life Now promises a crazy materialistic lifestyle not found anywhere in the Bible. The Spanish call this -living la vi da loca (living the crazy life).

The Bible persistently says “Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your heart on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things below. For you died and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, Who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.” But if in this life , we have no other hope then come on and join  Joel’s La Vi Da Loca.

Editor’s Note: “If we do not preach about sin and God’s judgment on it, we cannot present Christ as Saviour from sin and the wrath of God. And if we are silent about these things, and preach a Christ who saves only from self and the sorrows of this world, we are not preaching the Christ of the Bible . . . Such preaching may soothe some, but it will help nobody; for a Christ who is not seen and sought as a Saviour from sin will not be found to save from self or from anything else”

http://7drizzles7.wordpress.com/2010/07/13/joels-la-vi-da-loca/

1.  Freedom from Wolves

Danny is currently writing his testimony to be posted on his blog and our Testimony Page

2. ITCHING EARS

Kevin has a website on Freewebs. You can already view Kevin’s Testimony here on this blogs Testimony Page.

Please give these guys a visit and a shoutout to let them know they are appreciated for sharing their experiences in the WoF movement with us.

May God richly bless you, Danny and Kevin

THANKS

Proper Exegesis

I think it goes without saying that Mormons can’t do exegesis. They “proof-text” their way around the Bible, using maybe (at best) one or two verse from any given book of the Bible, without any regard to their contextual meaning. This may be partly due to deception on their part, but I believe it is largely due to the fact that they have no experience with exegesis. They have a “lay ministry”, so their leaders (eg. stake presidents) aren’t taught how to do it, and their top leaders (eg. Monson, Packer) don’t do it by example, to show them how it’s done. (I would actually be interested in the perceptions of ex-Mormons about when and how they eventually learned to exegete texts of Scripture.

What is fascinating is that most people understand how to read written texts, such as books, letters, newspaper articles, blogs, discussion forum posts, and so on. But it seems to me that “Scripture” has a particular “stigma” to it, that one thinks that it’s an exception to the rule of starting from the beginning, and following a thought or line of argument from start to finish. Of course, this concept may be enabled due to the ideas of some who think God is “speaking to them” if they open up a Bible to a random page, and blindly point their finger to a particular verse. It is also “encouraged” by those who use Scripture citations as supporting their doctrines, when those reading the citations might not realize that the meaning of a particular verse is contingent on understanding the verse in its overall passage.

Fortunately, it is frequently necessary only to know the teachings of the Bible, and the methods of proper exegesis, to be able to demonstrate the inappropriate use of “proof-texts” by Mormons. Case in point:

A Favourite “Proof-Text”

Mormons often use Phil. 2:5-6 to try to support the Mormon blasphemy of “exaltation”:

Philippians 2:5: Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

The attempted proclamation is clear:

1) Christ thought it “not robbery” (ie. justified) to be equal with God;
2) We are to have the “like mind” of Christ;
3) Therefore we should think we can/should be equal with God;

But when we need to address this “proof-text” argument, we need to consider a number of pertinent points:

1) What is the overall theme of Phil. 2? (How many Christians can answer this now? How many Mormons who use this proof-text can answer it?)

2) What precisely is the “like-mind” that Christians should have?

3) What is the meaning of the Greek word, “harpagmos”, translated “robbery” in verse 6?

4) How does the Mormon interpretation fit in with the rest of Scripture?

Overall Theme of Phil. 2

Read through Phil. 2 for yourself, and note all the references to humility:

Philippians 2:1: If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
Philippians 2:2: Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
Philippians 2:3: Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Philippians 2:4: Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
Philippians 2:5: Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Philippians 2:7: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Philippians 2:8: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:9: Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Philippians 2:10: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Philippians 2:11: And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:12: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

So we see that the theme of Phil. 2 is humility. Isn’t it strange that Mormons would argue that Paul is trying to argue that we should be of the mind of “exaltation” (a word that doesn’t even exist in the passage) while he’s trying to teach the church humility?

What is the “Like-Mind” of Christ?

What is truly sad about the Mormon proof-text is that in order to try to make their point, Mormons have to cut Paul off mid-sentence! Paul hadn’t finished describing Christ’s “like mind”, yet Mormons don’t want to let others hear the complete message:

Phil. 2:5: Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

What did Christ do here?

He went from: “be[ing] equal with God”
He went to: “no reputation”;
………………“form of a servant”;
………………“humbled himself”;
………………“death on the cross”.

What did Christ do? He showed the ultimate humility, exactly in line with the overall theme of the passage, humility. And why did Paul add the parenthetical comment that Christ “thought it not robbery to be equal with God”? Because by showing how high Christ’s starting level was, that emphasized that Christ showed the ULTIMATE humility in condescending as far as he did. It takes humility for a sinful man to be obedient to death on the cross (look at some of the Christian martyrs), but how many million times more humble was Christ’s taking on a nature of a human servant, and dying a death He did not deserve. It’s the ultimate humility.

And that humility is the “like mind” that Christians are exhorted to hold, not “exaltation”.

“Harpagmos” – Robbery?

The Greek word “harpagmos” is translated as “robbery” in the KJV. If you have access to them, you know that it is translated as “something to be grasped” in modern translations (NIV, NASB, ESV, etc.)

Phil 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, (ESV)

I don’t think it’s difficult to see the relationship, since “robbery” is the act of “grasping” someone else’s possessions. It seems clear, however, that when one keeps in mind the overall theme of Phil. 2, “humility”, the rendering of “something to be grasped”, or “something to be held onto” more accurate reflects the two-fold meaning of (1) it was a position held by Jesus, and (2) Jesus felt it appropriate to not hang onto it, but to humble himself in the incarnation.

I don’t mind the rendering of “not robbery”, since as it pertains to Jesus it is completely true. But it is not part of our “like mind”. Our “like mind” is to be humble, following the example of Jesus. The “not robbery to be equal with God” was simply to emphasize the extreme of Christ’s act of humility.

Does the Mormon “Proof-text” Fit Mormon Theology?

This is more of an addendum than anything else, as it doesn’t directly reflect on the meaning of the passage, but it does affect the laissez-faire way Mormons try to concatenate “proof-texts” without any regard for consistency in their beliefs.

Mormonism asserts that “Jesus is equal to God”. But in Mormon theology, this isn’t true. According to the doctrine of “eternal progression”, Jesus will always be trailing God in progression.

We are to be of “like mind” which means that we are to believe that we too are “equal to God”. Yet we are all that more far behind Jesus, who is Himself behind God in “exaltation”. So that isn’t true either.

Mormonism teaches that one gets exalted from humanity, to “godhood”. “As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.” — Lorenzo Snow. Yet this passage teaches that Jesus was “equal to God” before the incarnation, before becoming man, the exact opposite as is taught in Mormonism.

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The “proof-texts” of cults such as Mormonism can usually be seen through by properly exegeting the text, walking through it, and seeing what it actually says. In fact, all Bible study should have this as the heart of its methodology.

The Bible is not some “Collection of Holy Fortune Cookies”, one word “verse-truths” that are to be taken and interpreted as if they stood on their own, without any surrounding context, as if it was a “message of the day” inside a fortune cookie. Each verse retains its meaning as part of the larger surrounding context. It’s okay to quote or cite single verses, but only in the light of their contextual meaning.

A common “proof-text” Mormons use to try to prove their polytheism, or “plural gods” doctrine, is that of 1 Cor. 8:5:

1 Cor. 8:5 … there be gods many, and lords many …

But as we saw in the Phil. 2:5-6 thread, we will also see here that Mormons simply ignore the contextual content of the passage in trying to misrepresent Scripture to try to make it conform to their false doctrines. In fact, I would assert that one only needs to read the entire chapter, beginning at verse 1, to see the fallacious nature of the Mormon argument.

We will look at the following:

1) The overall theme of 1 Cor. 8;
2) The nature of the “gods many” according to verse 5;
3) The contrasting teaching Paul gives in light of “gods many and lords many”;
4) The overall teaching of monotheism in the Bible
5) A comparison with the Jewish Sh’ma, Deut. 6:4

The Theme of 1 Cor. 8

I Cor 8:1: Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
I Cor 8:2: And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
I Cor 8:3: But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
I Cor 8:4: As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
I Cor 8:5: For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
I Cor 8:6: But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
I Cor 8:7: Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
I Cor 8:8: But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
I Cor 8:9: But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
I Cor 8:10: For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
I Cor 8:11: And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

I think it is fair to say that when something (“idols”) is mentioned seven times in one chapter, it is a candidate for being the main “theme” of the passage. Paul is clearly speaking of idols, and in particular whether it is okay to eat meat which has been sacrificed to idols. In effect, the question is whether such meat has “idol-cooties”, or whether it makes you associated with the idols the meat came from. That is the context of “gods many and lords many”, the existence of a world full of “idols”, false gods.

So the mere mention of “there be gods many” in a passage speak of idols hardly is supporting evidence for polytheism, or “plural gods”, the existence of multiple true gods.

The Nature of “Gods Many”

Sadly, in 1 Cor. 8:5 we see the same fallacious abuse of Scripture that we saw in Phil. 2:5-6, namely Mormon apologists cutting Paul off “mid-sentence”, and in effect hiding the part of the passage which contradicts the Mormon usage:

I Cor 8:5: For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

Paul here refers to “there be that are CALLED gods”. Why would he say, “called” gods, rather than simply “are” gods, simply denoting existence? The answer is clear, that they are not truly gods, other than the fact that people “call” them gods. That people in Biblical times called “Ashtoreth” a god, didn’t make her one. That people called “Zeus” a god, didn’t make him a real being. That peopled called Caesar “god” and “lord”, didn’t make him divine (except in his own mind, of course). But the meaning becomes even more clear when one reads all of Paul in context:

Paul’s Contrasting Assertion

Not just once, but twice, not just before, but after as well, Paul reiterates monotheism, in contrast to the polytheism associated with idols:

I Cor 8:4: As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
I Cor 8:5: For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
I Cor 8:6: But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

He states:

an idol is “nothing in the world” (ie. they don’t exist);
“there is none other God but one” (monotheism);
“there be them called gods (“called”, in name only);
“there is but one God” (monotheism again)

Isn’t it ironic then, that just as we saw in Phil. 2:5-6, 1 Cor. 8 when read in context states the opposite of what Mormons try to twist it to mean. They try to force it to teach “plural gods”, but the only “plural gods” it teaches are non-existent “idols”, and in fact it teaches (not once, but twice) that only one god exists. Monotheism, true and true.

Paul’s basic argument… If it isn’t sacrificed to YHWH, it’s sacrificed to a non-existent idol entity, and it is just normal meat, free to be eaten. YHWH is the only god who exists.

The Consistent Biblical Testimony

Of course, the bulk of Mormon “proof-texting” is nothing but glorified “cherry-picking” of verses they think can be manipulated (such as 1 Cor. 8:5), all the while ignoring any and all passages which contradict the false belief. The foundational belief taught in the TaNaKH (ie. Old Testament) is monotheism, only one god exists, only one deity exists:

Deut. 4:35: Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

Deut. 4:39: Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

I Kings 8:60: That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

Isaiah 43:10: Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 44:6: Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 44:8: Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 45:5: I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isaiah 45:21: Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isaiah 45:22: Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Isaiah 46:9: Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

John 17:3: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I Cor 8:4: As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

Can it be any clearer that it is foundational that the Bible teaches monotheism, and that only one deity exists? And can a twisted verse which is actually about mythical “idols” really be used to overturn such a foundational Biblical teaching?

The Sh’ma

The “Sh’ma” is a reference to Deut. 6:4, a prayer recited twice daily by devout Jews, and named after the first word of the passage:

“Sh’ma yisrael adonai eloheinu adonai echad” (Hebrew)
“Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one” (English)

This is the verse Jews use to proclaim the fundamental belief in monotheism.

Notice the parallel between 1 Cor. 8:6, the teaching of Paul (a Jew, a “Hebrew of Hebrews”), and the Sh’ma, Deut. 6:4:

I Cor. 8:6: But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Deut. 6:4: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

And lest Mormons wish to argue that the Father alone is “God” and Jesus alone is
“Lord”, Scripture says otherwise:

Of the Father:

Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Of Jesus:

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

——————————————————————————————

Summary

In summary, 1 Cor. 8:5 is another “proof-text” Mormons try to twist to support their false doctrines. Apparently the hope is that those they witness to are unfamiliar with 1 Cor. 8, and that they won’t actually look it up and read it for themselves. The “gods many” in 1 Cor. 8:5 is actually about “idols”, imaginary false gods, those who are merely “called gods”, and Paul twice asserts monotheism in contrast in the passage (“there is none other God but one”, v. 4, “to us there is one God”, v. 6), as well as making reference to the “Sh’ma”, the ultimate proclamation of monotheism to any Jew within earshot.

1 Cor. 8 teaches monotheism, not “plural gods”.
The Bible teaches monotheism, not “plural gods”.

Mormons are (once again) ripping verses (or half-verses) out of context.

FROM THE VIDEO DESCRIPTION:

You MUST hear this song! A powerful song and teaching that gives you a serious warning concerning false teachers and their ungodly dangerous doctrines. You should listen to holy men of God who preach the truth from a sincere heart.THIS SONG IS FROM THE CD “CONSIDER THE COST” BY STEVE CAMP.I CONSIDER IT ONE OF HIS BEST.

The following book is a very good book to read on the subject it is called “The Agony of Deceit” by Michael Horton. The song is based on this book and 2 Peter 2. You can order this book on Amazon.com or ebay.

If you are a serious Christian and want to know the truth about this Movement consider buying these books.

You can find these books on amazon.com

1. “A Different Gospel” by D.R. McConnell
2. “The New Charismatics” by Michael Moriarty
3. “Christianity in Crisis” by Hank Hanegraaff
4. “The Seduction of Christianity” by Dave Hunt
5.” The Word-Faith Controversy” by Robert Bowman
6. “The Born Again Jesus of the Word-Faith Teaching” by Judith Matta
7. “The Strange World of Benny Hinn”
8. The Disease of the Wealth and Health Gospel” Gorden Fee (A renown godly Pentecostal Bible scholar).

If fact there is no church historian or Bible Scholar that would agree with these false teachings. I know this movement well. I graduated from Rhema Bible Training Center in 1979 and spent 12 long years as a part of this movement. I preached in many WOF Churches. I was a devout reader of E.W. Kenyon. I read one of his books over 40 times! I met and heard many of the key figures of this movement in the ’70s and 80s. So I’m not a novice on the subject. God by His grace set me free from these false doctrines in 1988. At the time I was a pastor of a growing church. I recanted before my congregation. The Bible became like a new book to me, so precious, pure and powerful. Since then I’ve been on the narrow road that leads to life. I now preach the Gospel as according to Jesus and the Apostles as inspired by the Holy Spirit. Finally, let it be said that not all pentecostals agree with the Word of Faith Movement. God bless you.

John Edwards is the owner of the blog http://junkerjorge1.blogspot.com/, which is now also found on Johns http://faithpreacher.com domain. John is an Ex-Word of Faith Pastor who is now a reformed Calvinist and blogs about his 14 years of WoF experince, both living it and teaching it. I highly recommend reading Johns blog, especially if your trying to find your way out of the WoF.

This post is about Johns first Blog that was imported to this blog when it first started, about 150 post or so. I think Johns earlier writings are his best, most transparent and open when sharing. I really urge you to take the time to read some of  the post from Johns first blog here. These post ARE NOT available anywhere else on the internet as John deleted that blog after me and him founded this groupblog.

When these post where imported to this blog the tags and categories did not transfer correctly. So these post did not get picked up by the search engines like they should so they have gotten only a small amount of hits here. That means that not many people have seen these post in quite sometimes, including John.

So I hope some of you will take the time to read these post from the original FAITHPREACHER Blog. Although John is not a groupblog author here anymore, he was vital in the founding of this blog, we remain friends and (again) I highly recommend reading these first post from John. The first couple of dozen post are found on his new blog, but well over 100 are exclusive to this blog.

Here is the link, I hope you enjoy

http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/category/john-edwards/

The couple has moved to a $10.5 million mansion in River Oaks, while keeping their former Tanglewood residence, valued at $2.9 million.

They are, however, selling a vacant lot next to their former home. Asking price for the half-acre property at the corner of Doliver and Sherbrooke: $1.1 million. Martha Turner Properties has the listing.

The lot is marked by an ivy-covered wall that adjoins the 5,600-square-foot, four bedroom home. When the land is sold, the property will be divided.

In a sign that the Houston real estate market remains soft at the high end, the Tanglewood lot was first offered for sale at an asking price of $1.4 million last August. The price was dropped to $1.299 million in December and to $1.1 million last month.

Several months ago, the couple and their children moved to a 17,000-square-foot stone mansion in the Tall Timbers subdivision in River Oaks. The Osteens’ new home is situated on 1.86 acres and surrounded by an ornamental fence. The 411: It has six bedrooms, six bathrooms, three elevators and five wood-burning fireplaces, with a one-bedroom guest house and pool house. The Harris County Appraisal District valued it at $10.5 million.

The Tanglewood house is owned by Joel and Victoria Osteen according to Harris County Appraisal District records. The River Oaks home is technically owned by the Covenant Trust, which means the Osteens do not qualify for a homestead exemption on it. They will pay around $260,000 in property taxes on the new home this year.

“The homestead exemption would reduce that amount, but they probably put the ownership in a trust for federal tax purposes that outweighs the benefits of the property tax exemption,”  surmised a home appraisal specialist who asked not to be identified.

According to reports, Osteen hasn’t drawn a salary from the church since 2005. His income comes from best-selling books and related products, such as calendars, daybooks and inspirational pamphlets.

http://culturemap.com/newsdetail/07-04-10-after-move-to-river-oaks-joel-osteen-wants-to-sell-tanglewood-land-for-11-million/

For those not from the Houston Area,, RIVER OAKS is the poshist of posh rich neighborhoods. Not only is there BIG money in the neighborhood, but it is an old money neighborhood also.

The Word of Faith movement emerged within Charismatic/Pentecostal Christianity in the latter 20th century. The Word of Faith movement as a whole has no formal organization or authoritarian hierarchy, though the movement does have a number of high-profile teachers who heavily influence Word of Faith theology. It’s basic theology is a peculiar mix of orthodox Christianity and mysticism.

Kenneth Hagin (who I believe is no longer living) is often referred to as the “father” of the Word of Faith movement, but in reality it was Phineas Parkhurst Quimby (1802-1866) who laid the foundations. It was Quimby’s metaphysical teachings that influenced E.W. Kenyon, and it was E.W. Kenyon’s teachings that in turn influenced Kenneth Hagin. Most prominent Word of Faith teachers today draw their inspiration from Kenneth Hagin.

The “force” of faith, an unbiblical view of faith, is the foundation of Word of Faith theology. Proponents believe they can use words to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health, wealth, etc.). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God’s sovereign will — God Himself being subject to the “laws” of faith.

The Assemblies of God is the second largest Pentecostal group in the United States and the largest Pentecostal organization in the world.  In the United States the Church of God In Christ is the largest Pentecostal group.  The Assemblies of God would official reject “Word of Faith” teaching but many of it’s churches do network with Word of Faith teachers.

For a compresensive look at what the Assemblies of God believes I suggest you visit their website at www.ag.org and brouse through the beliefs section.  There are many articles there that you should find interesting.  Especially their “position paper” section which sets forth their difference with some of the newer “Charastimatic” groups including the Word of Faith. (the Position paper is linked HERE for your convenience)

Blessings
Terry Wiles

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Pentecostals-2256/Assemblies-God-Word-Faith.htm

Would you believe me if I told you that right now there are people in this world who are constructing make-believe World War II airstrips and via elaborate rituals seek to entice the dropping of cargo – such as was the norm during that war when American GIs were supplied via airdropped cargo shipments on remote islands and outposts while the fighting was raging?

In a day and age of the Internet, television, and even just plain radio technology this seems to be an entirely fictitious notion, but not so! There is indeed on the island of Tanna (located in the South Pacific) a still operating cargo cult which reveres a mythical deity known as John Frum (a term anthropologists believe to stem from the way GIs may have introduced themselves to the villagers’ ancestors, i.e. “Hi, I’m John from America”). The BBC reported in February of 2007 about the parades the island’s young men hold, many of which carry wooden weapons painted with the letters USA.

The goal of the parades and worship is the wished for and much anticipated return of the mythical John Frum who is said to then bring them abundant wealth and also happiness.

Understanding the Prosperity Gospel

The prosperity gospel – also known as prosperity theology, the law of prosperity, and “the secret” – is a belief system that is common within certain Christian charismatic congregations but also heavily favored in the new thought movement.

In simplest terms, the idea of the law of prosperity requires the adherent to think themselves rich. Whether the blessing is to emanate from the Christian deity or the universe, the philosophy behind the mindset is pretty much the same.

If you were to put it down in an equation, it may look something like this: Sincere belief in a power waiting to bless abundantly + earnest actions displaying that belief = abundant blessings and fiscal prosperity

The prosperity gospel for those of the Christian background requires eager believers to understand that God wants to bless them. Since He is the maker of the universe, there is no blessing too big or too hard for Him to give. All that He requires is a sincere belief in Him and His blessing power.

This belief needs to be followed up with actions that prove it. To some this means that the individual will need to think of themselves as blessed and rich, before they even see this in reality. Some proponents of the prosperity gospel, such as prominent Pastor Joel Osteen, suggest the believer spends time visualizing themselves blessed. The goal is a detailed visual image of the blessing they wish to receive. This is then to be followed with a sincere prayer of thanksgiving to God for the blessing He is soon to pour out. Other proponents of the prosperity doctrine require that believers add seed money to their expression of belief. Televangelist Pat Robertson terms this the law of reciprocity and he states that the more you give to God financially – by way of his ministry – the more He will bless you with earthly riches.

The Connection between Cargo Cults and Prosperity Gospels

While the example of the cargo cult might have made you chuckle, the mentioning of the prosperity gospel (law of reciprocity) might have struck you as being true. Why? Obviously, being American you know that there really is no mythical John Frum who will one day reappear to the islanders and bless them with cargo drops and abundant wealth.Yet if you are a Christian who is thinking of beseeching a deity to drop abundant wealth and fiscal windfalls on you, are you not doing the same? Granted, you are not praying to John Frum but you are praying to a God whom you believe to be the giver of good things; but at the end of the day, is that not turning God into a glorified ATM? Furthermore, the advent of so many pastors and preachers who focus directly on this aspect of the faith appears to lend credence to their appeals. After all, one look at Joel Osteen – a most sincere, affable, kind, and very likeable person – and his congregation that is measured in the tens of thousands, and you are convinced that he has something to offer. On the other hand, if you consider that many of the proponents of this kind of theology require that believers tithe to their ministries and with the help of these tithes demonstrate their willingness to believe and their readiness to be blessed, the abundant blessing the Osteen, Robertson and so many other ministries have received seems to have an entirely traceable origin.Yet is the tithing to a religious organization as a means to an end (the goal of being blessed financially by God) instead of simply for the love of that deity not pretty much the same as the February parades held by the Tanna youth in honor of John Frum?The Shaky Theology of the Prosperity Gospel

Perhaps John Piper said it best when he pointed out that the three or four scriptures prosperity gospel preachers like to hang their theology on quickly crumble against the wealth of remaining Biblical verses.

When Cargo Cult Prosperity Theology Turns Into Small Business Marketing

It would seem that a philosophy which essentially claims that you simply think yourself rich and before long you will be does not really lend itself to small business methodologies. Yet even outside the churches proclaiming this gospel there are plenty of entrepreneurs who are cashing in from the law of prosperity.

Whether you call it prosperity gospel, law of prosperity, or the law of attraction, when there is a buck to be made, there is someone selling you a books or other bits of media to make it happen. Take for example the Centerpointe Research Institute which promises personal growth so powerful that it will leave you in charge of your destiny and ready for dramatic improvements overall.

Since there appears to be more to it than just imagining yourself rich, healthy, and abundantly blessed, there are CDs and DVDs for sale, including a wealth of material totaling about $180 (plus shipping).

Does it not stand to reason that something which is supposed to require little more than an active imagination should not really cost you any money?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/749457/the_prosperity_gospel_a_modern_day.html?cat=9

Luring people to Christ to get rich is both deceitful and deadly. It’s deceitful because when Jesus himself called us, he said things like: “Any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:33). And it’s deadly because the desire to be rich plunges “people into ruin and destruction” (1 Timothy 6:9). So here is my plea to preachers of the gospel.

1. Don’t develop a philosophy of ministry that makes it harder for people to get into heaven.

Jesus said, “How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!” His disciples were astonished, as many in the “prosperity” movement should be. So Jesus went on to raise their astonishment even higher by saying, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” They respond in disbelief: “Then who can be saved?” Jesus says, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God” (Mark 10:23-27).

My question for prosperity preachers is: Why would you want to develop a ministry focus that makes it harder for people to enter heaven?

2. Do not develop a philosophy of ministry that kindles suicidal desires in people.

Paul said, “There is great gain in godliness with contentment, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.” But then he warned against the desire to be rich. And by implication, he warned against preachers who stir up the desire to be rich instead of helping people get rid of it. He warned, “Those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs” (1 Timothy 6:6-10).

So my question for prosperity preachers is: Why would you want to develop a ministry that encourages people to pierce themselves with many pangs and plunge themselves into ruin and destruction?

3. Do not develop a philosophy of ministry that encourages vulnerability to moth and rust.

Jesus warns against the effort to lay up treasures on earth. That is, he tells us to be givers, not keepers. “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal” (Matthew 6:19).

Yes, we all keep something. But given the built-in tendency toward greed in all of us, why would we take the focus off Jesus and turn it upside down?

4. Don’t develop a philosophy of ministry that makes hard work a means of amassing wealth.

Paul said we should not steal. The alternative was hard work with our own hands. But the main purpose was not merely to hoard or even to have. The purpose was “to have to give.” “Let him labor, working with his hands, that he may have to give to him who is in need” (Ephesians 4:28). This is not a justification for being rich in order to give more. It is a call to make more and keep less so you can give more. There is no reason why a person who makes $200,000 should live any differently from the way a person who makes $80,000 lives. Find a wartime lifestyle; cap your expenditures; then give the rest away.

Why would you want to encourage people to think that they should possess wealth in order to be a lavish giver? Why not encourage them to keep their lives more simple and be an even more lavish giver? Would that not add to their generosity a strong testimony that Christ, and not possessions, is their treasure?

5. Don’t develop a philosophy of ministry that promotes less faith in the promises of God to be for us what money can’t be.

The reason the writer to the Hebrews tells us to be content with what we have is that the opposite implies less faith in the promises of God. He says, “Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, ‘I will never leave you nor forsake you.’ So we can confidently say, ‘The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?’” (Hebrews 13:5-6).

If the Bible tells us that being content with what we have honors the promise of God never to forsake us, why would we want to teach people to want to be rich?

6. Don’t develop a philosophy of ministry that contributes to your people being choked to death.

Jesus warns that the word of God, which is meant to give us life, can be choked off from any effectiveness by riches. He says it is like a seed that grows up among thorns that choke it to death: “They are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the . . . riches . . . of life, and their fruit does not mature” (Luke 8:14).

Why would we want to encourage people to pursue the very thing that Jesus warns will choke us to death?

7. Don’t develop a philosophy of ministry that takes the seasoning out of the salt and puts the light under a basket.

What is it about Christians that makes them the salt of the earth and the light of the world? It is not wealth. The desire for wealth and the pursuit of wealth tastes and looks just like the world. It does not offer the world anything different from what it already believes in. The great tragedy of prosperity-preaching is that a person does not have to be spiritually awakened in order to embrace it; one needs only to be greedy. Getting rich in the name of Jesus is not the salt of the earth or the light of the world. In this, the world simply sees a reflection of itself. And if it works, they will buy it.

The context of Jesus’ saying shows us what the salt and light are. They are the joyful willingness to suffering for Christ. Here is what Jesus said, “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. You are the salt of the earth. . . . You are the light of the world” (Matthew 5:11-14).

What will make the world taste (the salt) and see (the light) of Christ in us is not that we love wealth the same way they do. Rather, it will be the willingness and the ability of Christians to love others through suffering, all the while rejoicing because their reward is in heaven with Jesus. This is inexplicable on human terms. This is supernatural. But to attract people with promises of prosperity is simply natural. It is not the message of Jesus. It is not what he died to achieve.

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/TasteAndSee/ByDate/2007/1993_Prosperity_Preaching_Deceitful_and_Deadly/

You’ll shake your head in dismay as you see men barking like dogs and being led around on leashes; women howling like wolves and braying like donkeys; and profanity shouted from the pulpit. You’ll recoil in astonishment to discover supposed Christian leaders scoffing at Bible doctrine; a televangelist and his associates sharing an opium smoking pipe; possessed people slithering like serpents at crusades; and thousands of worshippers blasphemously speaking in false tongues and breaking out in roaring, hysterical laughter…