This great video examines biblical texts used by those who practice being Slain in the Spirit.

http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2010/02/beagley_verdict_comes_in_from.html

OREGON CITY — A Clackamas County jury sent a clear signal Tuesday that parents who rely solely on faith healing to treat their children face prison if a child dies.

Jeffrey and Marci Beagley were found guilty Tuesday of criminally negligent homicide in the death of their 16-year-old son, Neil. The boy died in June 2008 of complications from an undiagnosed congenital urinary blockage after his parents attempted to heal him with prayer, anointing with oil and laying on of hands.

They are the first members of Oregon City’s Followers of Christ church convicted of homicide in the congregation’s long history of children dying from from treatable medical conditions.

“This is a signal to the religious community that they should be on notice that their activities will be scrutinized,” said Steven K. Green, director of Willamette University’s Center for Religion and Democracy. Other prosecutors may be emboldened to take similar cases to court, the law professor said.

Prosecutor Greg Horner asked that the Beagleys immediately be taken in to custody. Clackamas County Presiding Judge Steven L. Maurer denied the request, saying the Beagleys were not a flight risk or threat to the community.

Friends and family reacted to the 10-2 verdicts with stunned silence. Marci Beagley hugged her mother in the courthouse lobby as both women wept. Other family members quietly stood by.

The Beagleys will be sentenced Feb. 18. The maximum penalty for criminally negligent homicide is 10 years, but the Beagleys likely will receive no more than 18 months in prison and could be sentenced to probation.

Steve Lindsey, who represented Marci Beagley, said he would recommend a “non-jail sentence” that would include probation and possibly other conditions, such as counseling, supervised medical care for the Beagleys’ 16-year-old daughter, Kathryn, and cooperating with state child-welfare investigators. Lindsey said such a sentence could educate the Followers about their legal responsibilities as parents.

http://www.app.com/article/20100130/…ng-on-miracles

On January 30, 2010 APP.com writer Jason Method wrote a continuing article about G. Dewey Friedel, the 60-year-old, pastor of Shore Christian Center in Wall, NJ.

Friedel is a Word of Faith Preacher who has built an overpriced and overbudgeted amphitheater-style church which has shrunk from 1200 to 300 members and is being taken over in bankruptcy on February 3, 2010. The church began in 1979.

He says that the devil and a “spirit of control” were attacking the church but that great things were coming.

Friedel has already lost his second home in Lee County, Miami, Florida.

He wanted to build his own worldwide network similar to the Trinity Broadcasting Network saying “If we offer what we have, he’s going to do something with it.”

The church was foreclosed on in July because ShoreChristianCenter could not make payments on its $4.7 million mortgage.

“It is unusual for any church to be foreclosed on, experts say, but there is special irony for a pastor who is an adherent to a strain of Christianity known as the prosperity gospel” says Method.

Friedel’s consistent message over the years has been: God is going to bless believers’ lives with bigger houses, better jobs and more money.

Friedel, who dresses in designer clothes like the leather sport coat he wore one recent Sunday, has seemed to personally enjoy that heavenly blessing for years. He lives in a spacious house, assessed at $747,600, with two driveways and a pool, writes books, appears regularly on national Christian television, and socializes with famous preachers and Major League Baseball players

Until this year, he owned two condos in Florida, before they were both lost to foreclosure.

Church finances fell apart after its adjustable rate mortgage changed from $23,000 to $47,000 a month. Friedel, who declined to be interviewed by communicated via e-mail, has been promising for years that a huge donation is coming through the United Nations, China and Saudi Arabia and that “all participants involved with the U.S. Treasury had to and did pass an FBI and CIA inspection.” He and the church have declined to provide specific information about the deal.

A senior program officer for the United Nations Fund for International Partnerships said that neither that office nor the United Nations Foundation had any involvement with the church.

Friedel’s wife, Ronda, 61, is co-pastor and son Isaac, 25, as assistant pastor.

Nancy Bensing, 59, and her husband have been very active supporters now
say the church has reaped what it has sown. “I’m mad at myself — for buying all that bull-crap all these years.”

A graduate of OralRobertsUniversity and Princeton Theological Seminary, Friedel had served as a missionary in India and Methodist minister in Avon before taking off to start his own church.

In 1999, the church added a 36,000-square-foot multipurpose complex,
Evangelist Oral Roberts visited the church twice. Around 2005, the church appeared to reach its crest of 1200.

With membership high, the church borrowed $4.5 million, refinancing previous debt and spending some for needed renovations on the original building. “We are not too small to accomplish this forty million dollar project.”

Friedel was willing to borrow money on his own properties as well.
The Friedels refinanced their Wall home for $720,000, with a notation that the maximum balance secured by the mortgage could be as high as $900,000, land records show. They had has purchased the home for $550,000 in 1998.

They also refinanced their condo in LeeCounty, Florida, for $548,000, land records show. Later, in 2007, they refinanced their Aventura, Florida, condo for $354,975.

“The best way to honor your pastor is cold hard cash in the palm of the pastor’s hand.’ ” The Czerwinskis contend that Friedel was not joking.
Meanwhile, Stephen Czerwinski said, the church never reported to members or leaders what it was doing with the donations. “You never saw the budget,” he said. “You never saw how much (Friedel) was paid. You were told to have faith. . . . You were told you could ask (about salaries) privately, but anyone who did was reprimanded for not having faith.”

The church has long required that congregants who want to become members must pledge to give 10 percent of their income to the church, a practice known as tithing.

The current elders confirm that the church does not share financial data with the congregation, which has no say on the church budget.
Elder Joseph Raspanti of Brielle said any member was always free to raise questions, but he also believes that objecting to decisions would display a lack of faith. “When you give to the church, you give what you believe belongs to God. To give it, and then say, “I don’t like the way it’s being used.’ That’s not tithing,” Raspanti said.

According to a 2005 financial statement obtained by the Asbury Park Press, the church spent $974,280 on salaries for its church and school staff of 39. The church also spent $106,178 in “casual labor,” $182,834 for housing allowances, and $154,446 for travel, meal and lodging of guests [$3000 per week].

At the end of the year, after bringing in $2.6 million in revenue, the church finished $221,302 in the red.

Church officials have declined to discuss specific salaries.

Rick Davis tells the story of retrieving a dropped wallet and discovering that it had been dropped by the king of Saudi Arabia who is has been about to financially help the church with millions in donation since 2007.

Friedel passed out bonus checks to leaders in anticipation of the donation arriving. On January 1st, 2008 the youth leader received a bonus check for $12,000 but never cashed it and was asked to return it but refused.

Joseph Lane, an elder and church attorney, said he has seen the contract.

On Easter Sunday in 2009, Friedel promised the church a season of abundance. “Hear me now,” Friedel said. “You are about to flourish and be on the receiving end of something that is happening as an undercurrent in this world. We’ve been meeting with government officials from all over the world.”

On Nov. 8, more than three months since the congregation had lost ownership of its sanctuary and facilities, Friedel alluded to the pending donation again and promised the church would embark on the big building program.

See 2:35-3:45
In this sermon titled “Dealing With False Teachers”, Dr. Stanley warns us about the dangers of false teachers, how they’re becoming more and more prevalent every day and how the Bible warns that this very thing would happen in the last days.

In Part 3, Dr. Stanley discusses some of the most common false teachings that are being taught today. He also tells how to best equip ourselves to recognize such false teachings.

For more information on this sermon, please visit:

http://www.intouch.org

HERE ARE PART ONE AND PART TWO

Dr. Marinelli’s Thesis: http://www.light-after-darkness.org/index.php?page=wof

Satan needed God’s permission to attack Job. Despite the crowing of Word Faith supporters, Satan admitted that Job had a hedge of protection around him (Job 1:9). It is obvious that God removed that hedge of protection in order for Satan to attack.

Remember also, God told Satan everything of Job’s is yours. Do not touch him. So the first attack was against everything that Job had except his wife. Why, because Satan did not have permission to do anything else. The second time, Satan had permission to attack Job’s flesh. But he could not kill him. Each time, God was asked by Satan for permission.

Job is far more than Dr. Marinelli can understand using his Word Faith perspective. He was a man who had control of his thoughts, Job 31:1. His sacrifices for his children are considered acts of fear. Yet, Abraham and Noah made the same types of sacrifices. See Genesis 8:20; 15:9-10. Also note that each time Job was attacked, he did not sin (Job 1:22 and 2:10) Even when God had chastised Job for his self-righteousness, God did not require a sacrifice for Job, only his friends (Job 42:7). I would like to also point out, each time Dr. Marinelli quoted Job when one of his friends were speaking, they were considered to be errant by God.

How righteous was Job? Well God clearly places him right up there with Daniel and Noah in Ezekiel 14:14 and 20. A New Testament writer, James, points out Job’s patience demonstrated during his suffering (James 5:11).

Themes of Job could be, “The Problem of Suffering of a Righteous Person” or “The Purpose of Chastening in the Hands of a Sovereign God”. Job clearly saw the sovereignty of God at the end, “I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted. (Job 42:1)” If were up to Word Faith, the theme of Job would be, “It’s really your entire fault.”

As chapter six continues, Dr. Marinelli says on page 151, “The destroyer was the direct executor of the plague, not God.” I am not sure why Dr. Marinelli has to go to such extent to absolve God from being directly involved with the Destroyer. Let’s see what the scriptures say, “This is what the Lord says; ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the first born son of the slave girl…’” (Exodus 11:4). Exodus 15:26 clearly has God admitting to causing the diseases that Egypt had experienced. Dr. Marinelli does later agree that God does create destroyers for specific purposes. Yet, the Egyptian example he tries to leave God out of the fray. I should remind Dr. Marinelli that God will one day judge all created beings and will do far worse to the non-elect than some plague.

Based on Word Faith interpretation (Page 153), Ananias and Saphira are placed into the hands of Satan after they lied to the Holy Spirit (Acts 5). Why would Satan want to destroy someone who has just done his bidding to God? This was a Holy judgment by the Holy Spirit. God could not have people lying to him in front of everyone. His holiness was violated. So the judge of all mankind made a judgment.

A similar event happened in the Old Testament. The Ark was being brought back to David (2 Samuel 6:7) and Uzzah touched it before it was to hit the ground. Uzzah violated God’s holiness and he was struck down. This was God’s doing, not Satan’s.

Final Comments and Summary

As you research Dr. Marinelli, you will see that his doctorate is from a diploma mill. He lacks in his hermeneutic approach, research abilities, and exegetic skills. At best, he is a neophyte in the world of theology. Being a neophyte myself, it is easy to see those who charade as doctors. Very few of the Doctor’s sources are from a scholarly level. I leave it up to you the reader to decide whether Mr. Marinelli’s thesis is worth a doctorate.

I and other bloggers have been grouped here. Check it out, there are some wonderful bloggers here you should read. And vote for the good ones! 

http://whatisthewordoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/06/theo-scribes.html

Here is an outline analysis of qualities exhibited by the Word of Faith Movement as a whole, which began with Kenneth E. Hagin and his Rhema Bible Training Center and are now being carried on by his son, Kenneth W. Hagin (Kenneth Hagin Jr.), Kenneth Copeland, Gloria Copeland, Joel Osteen, Jesse Duplantis, Paul Crouch, Benny Hinn, Fred Price, Creflo Dollar, Jerry Seville, Leroy Thompson, Mike Murdock, Todd Bently, etc. and many more lesser known preachers on a smaller scale. Of course, not all ministries and churches exhibit every one of the following qualities, but the movement as a whole has and continues to demonstrate many of these qualities. If you attend a Word of Faith or a Rhema affiliated church, carefully compare the following outline with your church, and see how many of these your church demonstrates.
 

1. Generally, a Word of Faith church or ministry is unorthodox, esoteric, and has a devotion to a person or a set of new ideas.
   1. New Teaching – has a new theology and doctrine.
   2. Only True Teaching – often considers traditional religious systems to be apostate and it alone possesses the complete truth.
   3. Strong Leadership – often an individual or small but powerful leadership group holds control of the group’s teachings and practices.
   4. Asset Acquirement – often requires tithing.
   5. Isolationist – to facilitate control over the members physically, intellectually, financially, and emotionally. This is rare.
   6. Controlling – exercises control over the members. Sometimes through indoctrination.
   7. Indoctrination – possesses methods to reinforce the group’s beliefs and standards where opposing views are ridiculed and often misrepresented.
   8. Apocalyptic – to give the members a future focus and philosophical purpose in avoiding the apocalypse or being delivered through it.
   9. Experience – various practices including meditation, repetition of words and/or phrases, speaking in tongues for extended periods of time, and ‘spiritual’ enlightenment with God are used as confirmation of their truth.
      1. Depravation – sleep and food deprivation which weakens the will of the person. This is uncommon, though practiced by a few.
   10. Persecution – predictions of being persecuted, often combined with claiming any opposing views demonstrated against them as a form of persecution.
2. Many have non-verifiable belief systems;
   1. For example, they would teach something that cannot be verified.
      1. That God, or angel appeared to the leader and gave him a revelation.
      2. The members are seeded angels from another world, etc.
   2. Often, the philosophy makes sense only if you adopt the full set of values and definitions that it teaches.
      1. With this kind of belief, truth becomes unverifiable, internalized, and easily manipulated through the philosophical systems of its inventor.
3. The Leader of a Word of Faith Church or Minsitry
   1. Often charismatic and is considered very special for varying reasons:
      1. The leader has received special revelation from God.
      2. The leader claims to be a special messenger.
      3. The leader claims to be appointed by God for a mission.
      4. The leader claims to have special abilities or anointing from God.
   2. The leader is often above reproach and is not to be denied, questioned or contradicted.
4. Group ethos
   1. Usually seeks to do good works.
   2. They are usually moral and possess a good standard of ethical teaching.
   3. The Bible is used.
      1. The Bible, when used, is many times distorted with private interpretations.
   1. Many Word of Faith ministries believe in Jesus as one of their own and redefine him accordingly.

These qualities are not only displayed by many Word of Faith churches and ministries, they are the very qualities that define a cult. Yes, a cult. Unfortunately, according to this outline, I can easily put the Word of Faith Movement, Rhema Bible Church, Rhema Bible Training Center and a good majority of the churches and ministries it has spawned under the heading “CULT”. This anaylitical outline of a cult is found HERE. Over the next few weeks, I hope to expound on these qualities one by one to demonstrate exactly how Word of Faith and Rhema in particular correlate with this list.

From Faith in Faith
to Faith in Christ

By: Peter Glover

Mark Haville’s is an extraordinary story. Converted into the Pentecostal/Charismatic church he quickly came under the spell of the Word-Faith teaching of men like Kenneth Copeland. But things did not stay that way for Mark…

Still in his mid-20′s, Mark became an itinerant minister travelling the country earning large sums of money through his ability to perform ‘signs and wonders’. Remarkably, he has renounced his former life, his beliefs, and his practices as a Word-Faith minister and is now speaking out boldly against the beliefs and practices of the current Signs and Wonders movement.

(Note: In the text ‘EN’ refers to Evangelicals Now, and ‘MH’ refers to Mark Haville. ‘PG’ is Peter Glover)

EN: “How did you first get involved with Word Faith teaching?”

MH: I was given lots of tapes and books by Kenneth Copeland which everyone was into at my church in North London. I believed that my Christian experience could validate my faith. It convinced me that what I was in was real. I was impressed by the numbers involved, their interest in the media, publications, the money and the general trappings of success – it bred the belief in me that biggest must be best.

EN: “What was the most appealing aspect of Word Faith teaching for you?”

MH: The Word Faith movement offered me power, what I believed to be a convincing testimony to the reality of God. It gave me support because I could show ‘things’ by preaching and performing. I was given numerous videos, audios and literature. All that I was given appeared glossy and successful.

EN: “How did you use what you saw in this material?”

MH: Basically, I copied it. I learned gradually to do what all these speakers like Copeland, Cerullo, Benny Hinn and others do. They manipulate audiences and individuals simply by the power of suggestion. They call the result ‘signs and wonders’. They are deluded. Gradually, I too had learned the process of controlling meetings and inducing hypnotic techniques through suggestion in churches. I did many of the so-called signs and wonders.

(PG: I was shown a video of a meeting held at a Pentecostal fellowship in Leeds being run by Mark. He explained the staged process of audience manipulation as things progressed. After a long period of singing what Mark described as ‘relaxing’ Spirit-focused songs, he appeared to be able to blow individuals over at will. They then remained on the ground for long periods – what is commonly termed ‘slaying in the spirit’).

THE RIGHT ATMOSPHERE

EN: “You maintain then that you were able to induce an atmosphere that was conducive to hypnotic suggestion?”

MH: Absolutely. The techniques are no different to those used by any practising hypnotist. First, the people in these meetings are already coming with high expectancy – they want it to be God. Second, you need to create the right atmosphere – hence the long periods of singing certain types of songs to make people feel relaxed and warm.

EN: “What kind of praise and worship?”

MH: It is very important to use songs and words that are focused on the Holy Spirit. This creates a far more mystical atmosphere. Songs full of Christian or Biblical doctrine work against people suspending their critical faculties. The effect is to create a mindlessness that will open your audience up to suggestion. Most people have no idea just how powerful suggestion can be. Let me add that all this is not necessarily done wilfully by leaders. This is something many of them have stumbled upon. It works, so they do it and call it “the Holy Spirit”.

EN: “Will it affect everyone at the meeting?”

MH: No, not at all. If you do not believe that it is God that is doing these things in the meeting, there is no way you will fall down. But remember, I am the one running the show. Just like any good hypnotist, I will be ‘working’ the audience. I can tell which ones are the more suggestive by asking certain questions. I can then bring people forward, having gotten them into a very relaxed and accepting state. You have to remember, people who come really want to believe that God is at work. By telling them to stand in a particular place I am strongly influencing their belief that by standing where I have told them – on that exact spot – something is going to happen. By telling them someone will stand behind them, because we wouldn’t want them to get hurt if they fall, it is all heightening the sense of anticipation and suggestiveness. The rest is easy.

EN: “You seemed to find it difficult to watch yourself on screen.”

MH: Yes, I find it very hard knowing how I unconsciously deceived good people into believing that the Holy Spirit was at work when it was common or garden hypnosis. But at the time I suppose I did believe, however incorrectly, that these things were the activity of God. But the reality is, I learned these techniques by watching others, and anybody can do them given enough training. They are psychological techniques – nothing else.

EN: “What caused you to look again at what you were doing and believed?”

MH: In a nutshell – the Scriptures themselves. I decided that I wanted to learn the Scriptures in the original Greek and I began to realise that what I believed didn’t match up with what the Scriptures actually taught.

A BIG RETHINK

EN: “For instance?”

MH: In 1 Corinthians it didn’t say we would be given spiritual gifts on demand, but as God wills. I had always been taught that, with enough faith, if you were ‘anointed’ and prayed enough, you would manifest the relevant gifts. I could see that God really didn’t work that way.

I could see that my fellow Bible students didn’t change for all their ‘anointing’. I witnessed the lack of basic integrity in fellow students and in my church. The church was in great debt and yet money was spent on unnecessary things like an electronic song board. We owed £200,000! And there were factions in the church. None of it added up. It didn’t fit at all with the health and wealth gospel we had been taught and which we preached. So I left.

EN: “And then?”

MH: Somebody gave me some videos teaching the Jewish exegetical method of learning. These methods would have been employed by the apostles. It really started to give me a much more critical mind. It caused me to ask more questions highlighting more and more areas that were very wrong. My faith started to re-focus again on Jesus and not the ‘outworkings’ such as praying in tongues or signs and wonders.

EN: “At this stage did you think of looking for an appropriate church?”

MH: Just before leaving I had already started the National Prayer Network evangelistic enterprise, producing teaching tapes and evangelistic videos. My energies went into that. Out of that came a group of people who started meeting together as a small church.

VERY DANGEROUS

EN: “What is your view about what is happening on the British church scene today?”

MH: We’re seeing an increase of Word Faith/health and wealth preaching and teaching. It is weakening the witness of the body of Christ by compromising to a world view. It gauges spirituality by success. The most dangerous thing is they are undermining true Christian faith which is based on God’s word alone. As Luther said, “My heart is captive to the word of God.”

EN: “What do you see as the hallmarks of this kind of ‘Christian’ belief?”

MH: Revelry, riotous behaviour, sensual Christianity.

EN: “And the more practical effects?”

MH: It re-directs funds away from legitimate gospel evangelism and real social needs, the orphans and widows and such. Its leaders earn exorbitant amounts of money – where the Bible teaches leaders shouldn’t reap dividends. If you can perform signs and wonders you can earn vast amounts of money. It was not unknown for me to be ‘gifted’ £400 – £500 on occasions. This is nothing to the five-figure sums charged by some modern prophets. Basic Christian truth is being superseded by pseudo-Christianity. We need to return to a Christ-centred gospel which produces a selfless and non-materialistic lifestyle.

EN: “What about the numbers the Faith and signs and wonders movement claim are saved?”

MH: This is self-deluding exaggeration based on faulty theology of conversion. They teach commitment to a message rather than conviction by the gospel. They need figures to validate their ministry for the continued solicitation of funds.

END-TIME ADVICE

EN: “What would you say then to those caught in the current signs and wonders movement?”

MH: Jesus did more signs and wonders than anybody else and at the end of His ministry He only had about 500 followers. Anyone caught up in the current trend towards belief in a great end-time restoration of the Church must first realise that this kind of revival is the opposite of what scripture promises. What Jesus did promise is the falling away of professing Christians, and an influx of false ‘anointed’ ones.

If we are truly living at the imminent return of Christ, where are those things that God promised must take place?

I would say to my brothers and sisters in these movements that you may well not be conscious that what you believe is other people’s opinion on Scripture, as I did. You would do well to heed the words of Martin Luther – ‘Sola Scriptura’.

Notes:

1.
Word-Faith preaches a gospel of personal wealth which can be obtained through the ‘force of faith’. Spiritual power is thus generated through ‘faith’. God’s sovereign will is effectively overridden by this ‘force of faith’, effecting eternal spiritual laws to which God Himself is subject. PG.

2.
Research carried out in 1994 amongst a number of Christians from many different backgrounds revealed that almost 100% believed the ‘Word-Faith’ message is merely the gospel plus healing and prosperity on demand. None of those surveyed had any idea of the depth of heresy and extent of error in this movement. (Extract from ‘The Faith Movement May Be Prospering But Is It Healthy?’, by Stuart St. John: 95 pence booklet available from Reachout Trust, 24 Ormond Road, Richmond, England).

The above article was first published by Evangelicals Now, March 1996, and is reprinted by kind permission.

http://www.christiandoctrine.net/doctrine/articles/article_00086_from_faith_in_faith_to_faith_in_christ_web.htm

=================================================

Mark Haville is also the host and a producer of this must see video!!!

Signs And Wonders Movement Exposed: THE VIDEO SERIES THAT EVERY CHRISTIAN MUST SEE!!!!!!!

http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2009/04/14/signs-and-wonders-movment-exposed/

VISIT OUR

A good friend of mine told me a story the other day:

He and wife were students at Rhema Bible Training Center. They didn’t have a car, and they wanted one! They had heard a message about naming what you want, then claiming it according to the promises of God. The light came on. They didn’t have a car because they hadn’t used their faith to get one! So they mustered all the faith they had, then began calling that car into existence. They were sure that they would have a car by the end of the week. Days went by – no car. Weeks passed – no car. Months flew by – still no manifestation of that car! Finally, after more than a year of confessing and believing, his wife now 7 months pregnant with their first child – still no car. He was a bit angry with God now. So he decided to ask Him what was wrong. Why didn’t their faith work? Where was their car? God answered him. He told him that he didn’t NEED a car. God reminded him that they lived across the street from school, from church AND from work. It was a five minute walk to all those places. God even pointed out to him that Wal-Mart was not even a mile away, and they had many friends with cars who often asked him and his wife to go with them to the grocery store. God reminded him that gas prices shot through the roof over the last year, and that with his current salary, he wouldn’t have even been able to afford the gas! Finally, he said that God told him that now is the time for him to have a car.

So, did my friend learn the lesson that God knows best? Did he accept the fact that only God, in His infinite wisdom knows what we really need? Did he realize that the answers to our prayers is sometimes a big fat “NO”, or “No, not yet”? I’ll let him answer that question with the rest of the story…

He told me that the next morning was a Sunday. Pastor Hagin preached a great message on holding on to your faith, like a bulldog. He admonished the congregation with inspiring stories in dramatic tones to never give up on that for which they were believing God. “Never let it go!”, he cried with fists clenched high in the air. My friend and his wife looked at each other, eyes sparkling with excitement. At the end of his rousing sermon, Pastor Hagin told the congregation to stand up and reach out with their hands and grab in faith what it was that they were believing for from God! So, he and his wife did just that. They claimed that car, finally knowing that it was God’s perfect timing. He told me that they realized that it just wasn’t the right time over a year ago for them to have a car, that they had asked God prematurely, then given up on their faith too soon when the car failed to materialize. He went on to tell me that not 5 hours after they claimed that car there in the Rhema church auditorium, a family member called him up to tell him that she wanted to give them her car. Well, that was it. Their faith had worked. They got God to give them a car.

End of the story? Not quite. It was only later that I found out that car came with a catch. The family member had to ditch the car because she couldn’t keep up with the monthly payments, having been recently laid off. So they would have to take over payments. They saw it as an answer to prayer. I’m sorry, but I don’t see it. Instead of thanking God for not giving him what he was asking for because it would have put him in the red financially, instead of realizing that God knows better than we do what we need, instead of accepting that God is ultimately in control, this wonderful friend of mine missed it all. He just didn’t get it. God spoke to his heart and gave him the answer of “why?” – a bonus, I must say, that not many of us get when asking God that question – and yet he missed it. He still put more faith in his faith than he did in the Lord. He thought that it was his faith that got him that car, he just didn’t get it.

In light of that story I pose a question. When we want something or think we need something that we don’t have, why not simply ask God, in His sovereign wisdom, to give us that thing only if He deems it necessary, trusting that He, as our loving Father, knows better than we! In the meantime, why not simply thank God for supplying all our need, and taking care of our daily needs, as He promised in His word, knowing that He knows what we need even before we ask Him! It seems to me that doing that would demonstrate more faith and trust in God than demanding from Him something we want without even consulting His infinite wisdom!

A Conversation on the Book of Job Part I, A Conversation on the Book of Job Part II, A Conversation on the Book of Job Part III, A Conversation on the Book of Job Part IV

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My Provider, my Personal ATM, my own Genie in a Bottle which art in the business of making me rich beyond measure and subject to moving on my behalf whenever I demand it of You with my faith, Hallowed be MY name among my church peers.

Thy kingdom – all it’s treasures and riches and honor – come to me! Money cometh – to me – NOW!

MY will be done in earth, because you said so in your word. I can have whatsoever I saith!

Give me this day my daily bread – make it white – I don’t like whole wheat. Oh, and a new Mercedes S550 4Matic with ALL the options (just like pastors, after all, God, you are no respecter of persons!) a brand new Lexus for my wife; a brand new 6,000 sq. ft. house with 8 bedrooms, 6 bathrooms, 4 living rooms, 3 full size garages, one GIANT kitchen, an indoor/outdoor pool, a sauna, a tennis court, a basketball court, a gardener, butler and a housekeeper; a brand new $120,000 wardrobe, and $1,000,000 in spending cash for my wife.

And miraculously forgive all of my $66,000 in outstanding credit card debt – miracle debt cancellation cometh – to me – NOW! After all God, I did give $1,000 in faith to Mike Murdock because he said You spoke to him to tell me personally that if I obeyed God and sent in my $1,000 – even if I had to put it on a credit card, that You would give me my 100-fold return!
And lead me not into temptation to doubt your word – I refuse to let thoughts of doubt creep into my mind – satan get behind me!

But deliver me from poverty and lack! For MINE is the kingdom, and MINE is the power to get anything I want out of You, and, of course, God, I will try to remember to give you all the glory. Amen.

image

===================================================

Self proclaimed Apostle, Prophet, Pastor, Teacher, TV evangelist owner of Kenneth Copeland Ministries seen on Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN). Word of Faith movement, Endorses the “Holy Laughter Movement” of Rodney Howard BrowneUses detestable tactics like prayer cloths

To see video of antics clicking here.

Nature of God

• God is a spirit-being with a body, complete with eyes, and eyelids, ears, nostrils, a mouth, hands and fingers, and feet. (Kenneth Copeland ministry letter, 21 July 1977.)
• The Bible said He measured the heavens with a 9 inch span. Now the span is the difference, distance between the end of the thumb and the end of the little Finger. And, and that Bible said, in fact the amplified translation translates the Hebrew text that way. That He measured out the heavens with a 9 inch span. Well, I got a ruler and measured mine, and my span’s 8 3/4 inches long. So now God’s span is a quarter of an inch, a quarter inch longer than mine. So you see, that faith didn’t come billowing out of some giant monster somewhere. It came out of the heart of a being that is very uncanny the way He’s very much like you and me. A being that stands somewhere around 6′ 2 , 6′ 3, that weighs somewhere in the neighbourhood of a couple of hundred pounds, little better, has a span of 8 and, I mean nine inches across – stood up and said Light be [Let it be?], and this universe situated itself and went into motion. Glory to God. (Spirit, Soul, and a Body 1 1985, audio tape #01-0601, side 1)
• God and Adam looked exactly alike. (The Authority of the Believer IV; Tape #01-0304)
• God could not intervene since He had made Adam the god of the earth. God was left on the outside looking in. (Following the Faith of Abraham; Tape #01-3001)
• I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is. Everybody ask you ask Who’s the biggest failure? They say Judas, somebody else will say No, I believe it was Adam, well how about the devil. He’s the most consistent failure. But he’s not the biggest in terms of material failure and so forth. The biggest one in all the Bible is God. What, what, what – don’t you turn that set off – you listen to what. I told you – now you sit still a minute. You know me well enough to know I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t tell something I can’t prove from the Bible. (Praise-a-thon program – TBN, April 1988)

Nature of Jesus

• Jesus existed only as an image in the heart of God, until such time as the prophets of the Old Testament could positively confess Jesus into existence through their constant prophecies. (Spirit, Soul, and Body; Tape #01-0601) [Note: This is one of the key belief of the false doctrine known as Modalism: www.bible.ca/trinity/]
• Jesus has a beginning and an end. (What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303) [Note: This is one of the key belief of the false doctrine known as Modalism: www.bible.ca/trinity/]
• Jesus has not remained the same, he has changed. (What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)
• He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell….He allowed Himself to come under Satan’s control…every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him….They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer. (The Price of It All, p3)
• That Word of the living God went down into that pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life….Jesus was born again — the firstborn from the dead the Word calls Him — and He whipped the devil in his own backyard. (The Price of It All, p4-6.)
• Jesus was dragged down into the bowels of Hell where He was beaten and bruised by Satan and his demons until Jesus could finally fight His way out of Hell 3 days later. (Classic Redemption, p.13) and (Believer’s Voice of Victory, September 11, 1991)
• Jesus was reborn in the pits of hell.(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303) and (Classic Redemption, p.13)
• Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross and took His spirit to the dark regions of hell (Kenneth Copeland Reference Edition Bible, 1991, p129)
• Jesus took on the nature of Satan when He was on the cross. (Jesus lost His divine nature). (Doctrinal Statement dated March 12, 1979) and (What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)
• The day that Jesus was crucified, God’s life, that eternal energy that was His from birth, moved out of Him and He accepted the very nature of death itself. (The Price of It All, Believer’s Voice of Victory, September 1991, p3)
• Jesus had to give up His righteousness (The Incarnation, side 2.)
• Jesus had to go through that same spiritual death in order to pay the price. Now it wasn’t the physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin, because if it had of been any prophet of God that had died for the last couple of thousand years before that could have paid that price. It wasn’t physical death anybody could do that. (What Satan Saw on the Day of Pentecost audio tape #020022)

Nature of man

• I say this with all respect so that it don’t upset you too bad, but I say it anyway. When I read in the Bible where he [Jesus] says, ‘I Am,’ I just smile and say, ‘Yes, I Am, too!’ (Believer’s Voice of Victory broadcast on TBN, recorded 7/9/87)
• Every Christian is a god. (Substitution and Identification)
• You don’t have a God in you; you are one, (The Force of Love (Fort Worth: 1987, audiotape #02-0028, side 1)
• You are not a spiritual schizophrenic — half-God and half-Satan — you are all-God (Now We Are in Christ Jesus, 1980, p16-17)
• Adam was God manifested in the flesh. (The Authority of the Believer IV; Tape #01-0304)
• When we use the spiritual laws that God has set up, God must obey what we request. (Praise the Lord broadcast, TBN, recorded 2/5/86)
• All of God’s attributes and abilities were invested in Adam. (The Authority of the Believer IV; Tape #01-0304)
• If you stood Adam upside God, they look just exactly alike….If you stood Jesus and Adam side-by-side, they would look and act and sound exactly alike….The image is that they look just alike, but the likeness is that they act alike and they are alike….All of God’s attributes, all of God’s authority, all of God’s faith, all of God’s ability was invested in that man. (Authority of the Believer IV, 1987, audiotape #01-0304, side 1)
• The Spirit of God spoke to me, and He said Son, realize this Now follow me in this, don’t let your tradition trip you up. He said Think this way. A twice-born man whipped Satan in his own domain. And I threw my Bible… I said What? He said A born-again man defeated Satan – the first-born of many brethren defeated him. He said You are the very image, and the very copy of that one. I said Goodness Gracious, saints alive. I began to see what had gone on in there, and I said Well you don? mean – You couldn’t dare mean that I could have done the same thing? He said Oh yeah. If you’d had the knowledge of the Word of God that He did you could’ve done the same thing cause you’re a re-born man too. (Substitution and Identification 1989, audio tape #00-0202, side 2)
• God’s reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself. I mean a reproduction of Himself. And in the garden of Eden He did that. He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even. And Adam was as much like God as you can get, Just the same as Jesus when He came into the earth, He said If you’ve seen Me, you’ve seen the Father. He wasn’t a lot like God – He’s God manifested in the flesh. And I want you to know something – Adam in the garden of Eden was God manifested in the flesh. (Following the Faith of Abraham 1, 1989, audio tape #01-3001, side 1)
• Adam lost the innate ability to create at the fall. (What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)
• Don’t be disturbed when people accuse you of thinking you’re God. The more you get to be like Me, the more they’re going to think that way of you. They crucified Me for claiming that I was God. But I didn’t claim I was God; I just claimed I walked with Him and that He was in Me. Hallelujah. That’s what you’re doing. (Voice of Victory Vol. 15, No. 2, 2/87)
• You have the same creative faith and ability on the inside of you that God used when he created the heavens and the earth. (Inner Image of the Covenant, side 2.)
• Jesus is no longer the only begotten Son of God (Now We Are In Christ Jesus, 1980, p24)

Nature of faith:

• Faith is God’s source of power (Freedom From Fear, 1983. p12.)
• Faith was the raw material substance that the Spirit of God used to form the universe. (Authority of the Believer II (1987, audiotape #01-0302, side 1.)
• God did not create the world out of nothing, He used the Force of His Faith. (Spirit, Soul and Body, #01-0601, Tape #1)
• Faith is a Force (like Starwars). (Spirit, Soul and Body, #01-0601, Tape #1)
• The force of faith was controlling His (Jesus’) ministry. (The Force of Faith, p9)
• Faith is a power force, he claims. It is a tangible force. It is a conductive force. (The Force of Faith, 1989, p10)
• Faith is a spiritual force….It is substance. Faith has the ability to effect natural substance. (Forces of the Recreated Human Spirit, 1982, p8)
• The force of gravity…makes the law of gravity work…this force of faith…makes the laws of the spirit world function. (The Laws of Prosperity (Fort Worth: Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1974, 18-19.)

Nature of heaven:

• Earth is a copy of the mother planet (Heaven). Heaven has a north and a south and an east and a west. Consequently, it must be a planet. (Spirit, Soul, and a Body 1 1985, audio tape #01-0601, side 1)
• It’s all a copy. It’s a copy of home. It’s a copy of the mother planet. Where God lives, He made a little one just like His and put us on it. (Following the Faith of Abraham 1 1989, audio tape #01-3001, side 1)

Anti-intellectual, anti-doctrine:

• Believers are not to be led by logic, he writes. We are not even to be led by good sense (The Force of Faith, 7)
• I don’t preach doctrine, I preach faith. (Following the Faith of Abraham I, side 2)

http://www.bible.ca/tongues-encyclopedia-pentecostal-preachers.htm#Copeland

I created this blog to put my thoughts out there on the Word of Faith movement, ask questions about it, and get feedback by those who support and those who oppose of the movement. I have been in the Word of Faith Movement for almost 15 years now, and I have recently begun to question the soundess of their doctrine. I am not a heresy hunter. I do not hate the Word of Faith Movement. I don’t have any grudges against any Word of Faith pastor. I believe that I, as a believer in Jesus, must rightly divide the Word of Truth, God’s Word. I refuse to believe anything, just because someone tells me it’s true. I have to find out for myself.

I believe that God is drawing us to Himself more than ever before. I believe that more than ever, we as Christians, must be so careful what we choose to believe. We must consider the whole council of God’s Word, not pick out a few verses to fit what we want to be true. There will be those who condemn me for asking questions. I have always been curious and have always asked the question, “WHY?” A lot of people in my life, pastors especially, didn’t like me asking questions. There is nothing wrong with questioning things. It’s the only way to find the Truth.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

AND DON”T MISS OUR TWotWoF GROUP RADIO SHOW

LIVE Thursdays at 10pm central

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://whatisthewordoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/02/why-i-question.html
]]> http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2009/03/10/why-this-blog/feed/ 0 AK http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2009/03/10/thy-will-be-done/ http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2009/03/10/thy-will-be-done/#comments Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:02:07 +0000 AK http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/?p=1597 ]]>

Jesus taught us to pray to the Father, “Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” The Word of Faith more or less teaches us to pray, or more specifically, demand that our will be done in heaven as it is on earth! This directly contradicts Jesus’ teaching. I don’t know how they can justify this with a clear conscience. Word of Faith preachers actually teach that we shouldn’t pray to ask God of anything, but that we should demand our rights of God!

Then they go on to say that actually we are not demanding anything of God, but we are demanding things from the devil! So, we have “progressed” from praying to God the Father that His will be done on earth as it is in heaven to demanding that the devil give us what rightfully belongs to us! Therein lies the danger of the Word of Faith teaching. One doctrinal error leads to another until they are teaching things absolutely opposed to the very words of Jesus. Talk about the blind leading the blind!

http://whatisthewordoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/02/thy-will-be-done.html

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

AND DON”T MISS OUR TWotWoF GROUP RADIO SHOW

LIVE Thursdays at 10pm central

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ask any word of faither what Mark 11:23 says. Ten out of ten will spout it off without hesitation. They know it like they know their name. Ask them what the verse before it, Mark 11:22 says, and I’ll bet you nine out of ten will not be able to tell you. It seems to me that most word of faith preachers put way too much stock in these two verses, Mark 11:23, 24 “Whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” Now I am not saying that these verses are not true. Jesus said it, they’re written in red, of course they’re true.

What bothers me is that by putting so much emphasis on these two verses without tempering it with the rest of the Word of God, word of faith preachers lead and teach their followers to elevate their faith even above God, in essence creating an idol of faith! They imply that it is their faith that will get them a brand new car, their faith that will keep them from getting sick, their faith that will keep every less than ideal circumstance out of their lives. In so doing, they do not give God the credit, who graciously grants us our requests, according to His will. Notice that word, REQUEST. It’s an absolute truth to say that we should believe we receive when we pray, of course we should believe! What is the point of praying if we don’t believe God will hear us?

But we are told to request of God, not demand of Him! The problem with putting so much emphasis and value on faith alone, is that it leads people to make the mistake of putting their faith IN their faith instead of putting their faith in God, where it belongs. What does Mark 11:22 say? Word of faithers would be much better off it they knew…”Have faith in God”.

http://whatisthewordoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/02/faith-in-faith-or-faith-in-god.html

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

AND DON”T MISS OUR TWotWoF GROUP RADIO SHOW

LIVE Thursdays at 10pm central

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A well-meaning friend gave my wife this book by Kelly Copeland-Kutz, Kenneth & Gloria Copeland’s daughter. The title of the book is Protecting Your Family in Dangerous Times. I just had to write this blog. The book is riddled with errors, starting with the introduction! I believe Kelly had good intentions writing this book. But we all know the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

In the introduction Kelly says, on page xii “Let me add one final thought before you begin this book. In reflecting on the changes in our lives since we began to plead the blood of Jesus eight years ago, I realized that fear had been eradicated in our family. The blood of Jesus wiped it out! Do you realize that in any battle you face, fear will cause you to lose? In fear, we say the wrong things and do the wrong things. But when you begin to plead the blood of Jesus faith is built up and fear loses its grip on you. In the absence of fear you make the right decisions and you speak the Word of God and victory is yours! I am very thankful to my Jesus, not only for His blood, but also for opening my eyes to real life in Him.” Are we to believe that everyone in her family NEVER experiences ANY fear whatsoever?

Forgive my skepticism. OK, fear is not a good thing, that’s a given. We all face fear many many times in life. God tells us to fear not. But will fear make you lose battles? Lets examine the issue. The definition of fear, according to Websters Dictionary is “an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger.” Hmm, an emotion. Kenneth Copeland states “That doesn’t really matter because fear is not a feeling. It is not an emotion. It is a spiritual force. And although it can and does affect your emotions, it can be in operation even when you don’t feel it.“ 1 So Kenneth Copeland now redefines fear. By the way, that quote is taken from “Faith and Hope: Roadblocks” The whole premise of this ridiculous teaching is, well, let me just quote Kenneth Copeland. “You’ve done everything you know to do. You’ve obeyed the voice of the Lord. You’ve taken a stand of faith. You’ve bound the devil, loosed the angels, commanded, declared and prayed. In your heart you know that you can have victory in this circumstance. Some way, somehow, you can beat it with the power of God. But still, you find yourself trapped in defeat. Instead of being overtaken by the blessings of God, some portion of the curse is clinging to you. It might be sickness or lack, failure in relationships or business dealings. But whatever it is, it is clearly of the devil and it is sticking to you like gum to your shoe. Spiritually, you’re smart enough to realize that God is not your problem. He is on your side. And neither He nor His Word ever fails. You might be tempted to believe the devil is your problem. But, the fact is, you know better than that too. Jesus whipped him completely 2,000 years ago and took away all his authority. The question is: If God isn’t the problem, and the devil isn’t the problem…who is? His answer? He goes on to say, in essence, if its not God’s fault or the devils, then it is obviously your fault!

You have done everything that you are supposed to do, according to the Copelands, to experience heaven on earth, but you are still sick, or broke, or your marriage is still broken or whatever. Of course Copelands teaching could never be wrong, so he has to come up with a reason why his teaching isn’t working! But how could it be your fault? You’ve done everything he told you to do! Conveniently for Copeland, (extremely inconvenient for you) its now because you have fear! You are afraid, even if you don’t feel afraid, well, if you’ve done all the confessing and believing he has taught you but its not working, than you must be in fear. Because he is always right. My God, what bondage to put people in. It maddens me. It sickens me. It is deceptive. It destroys people. I hate it. Lets look at the truth.

What is the opposite of fear? Kenneth Copeland says it is faith. He is wrong. Oh in his twisted mind it is absolutely the truth. He believes that faith is a force, so then, according to him there is an opposite force, and he names it the force of fear. Faith is not a force. Faith is just another word for belief. Let me make that clear. FAITH IS NOT A FORCE. Faith=Belief. Get it? Ask anyone what the opposite of belief is. If they have half a brain (and haven’t been brainwashed by the Word of Faith teachers) they’ll tell you its unbelief, or doubt! I would bet my hard earned money that 99 out of 100 people will say unbelief, or doubt. Duhhh! Why wouldn’t they? Its common sense! No one can logically argue that fear is the opposite of belief. It doesn’t make any sense. Its absurd. What is the opposite of fear then?

Courage. Look it up! Its true! So, lets define courage. Websters says courage is “mental or moral strength to venture, persevere, and withstand danger, fear, or difficulty.” Strength. Persevere. Withstand danger and fear. Question: Would strength, perseverance, and withstanding fear be necessary if there weren’t any fear? Think about it. Without fear, there would be no such thing as courage. Sounds to me like courage is acting in spite of fear, not the absence of fear.

Courage is the moral strength to fight, even though you are scared! Ask any American WWII vet if they were scared going into battle. The honest ones will tell you they were scared shitless. According to Kelly Kutz, well, if they were scared, then they lost battles. Damn, I thought we won WWII! This is stupid teaching. The vets tell us they were scared, but they did their jobs anyway.

THAT is courage. That is heroism. It is foolish and prideful to claim that you don’t ever experience fear or claim that if you are afraid, then you have no faith. Fear is an emotion that warns us of danger. Simple as that. Fear is not a force. God, its that simple. It pisses me off that people make things so retardedly difficult and impossible to achieve. How many followers of the Copelands feel guilty every single time they experience that twinge of fear? I feel for them, and pray God opens their eyes.

http://whatisthewordoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/03/faith-fear-belief-and-courage.html