I and other bloggers have been grouped here. Check it out, there are some wonderful bloggers here you should read. And vote for the good ones! 

http://whatisthewordoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/06/theo-scribes.html

Heretic: one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine – Webster’s Dictionary

Kenneth E. Hagin, a.k.a. Brother Hagin clearly taught heretical messages. To any clear thinking individual, there is no question about that. His version of faith is very different than that found in Scripture and accepted and established by the church for thousands of years. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for questioning authority, but when authority gives an answer that makes sense, I back down. There is something we can take from tradition. Hagin’s faith teaching is full of error and New Age mysticism wrapped up in Scriptures twisted to fit his interpretation. Much of his theology is quite obviously unscriptural. Therefore, by definition, he was a heretic. But the question of his motives is a different one entirely. No one but God can see into Brother Hagin’s heart or mind and determine his motive for revising the established and accepted definition of faith. (Proverbs 16:2 All a man’s ways seem innocent to him, but motives are weighed by the Lord.) I, for one, believe he had good intentions. I do not believe he had malicious intent when he started preaching his “faith”. But we all know what paves the road to hell…

It seems apparent to me, having seen and heard Brother Hagin hundreds of times and having sat through his classes at Rhema Bible Training Center, that he sincerely believed that what he was teaching was divine inspiration from God. His faith in his faith message appeared stalwart. But let’s be honest. Brother Hagin was a simple minded, inarticulate man, having no formal education or seminary training. He developed his teachings through his own personal experiences, supposed visitations from Jesus, and from reading (and, by the way, plagiarizing) E.W. Kenyon’s writings. Examining his teachings, “revelations” and “visitations” from Jesus in the light of Scripture finds them severely lacking in Biblical truth, sometimes even explicitly contrary to Scripture! Therefore, we do not have the option of believing he was receiving divine revelation from God. The unforeseen consequences of Brother Hagin’s dissemination of his extra-Biblical “revelations” via radio, TV and print are clearly on display today. Just turn on TBN. Hagin unknowingly created a monster. I believe he realized it late in his life. He wrote a book titled The Midas Touch, where he addressed the excesses and errors in the prosperity message being taught by major Word of Faith ministries. But he was too late. The ministers targeted, Leroy Thompson, Kenneth Copeland and others, refused to listen to their “father of faith”. If the Faith Movement had died with Brother Hagin, maybe there would be little reason to ask these questions. But unfortunately, it is alive and growing rapidly, reaching its tentacles into the furthest corners of the globe. Clearly, the mantle of the Word of Faith Movement has fallen squarely on the shoulders of Kenneth Copeland. Interestingly enough, on a side note, Brother Hagin’s son, Kenneth W. Hagin, Pastor of Rhema Bible Church, does not have the influence, resources, or the audience that Copeland has. Copeland was a self proclaimed disciple of Brother Hagin. Copeland has said that he used to listen to Brother Hagin’s messages over and over so many times with the intention of memorizing them, then he would literally preach them word for word to his own congregation. Copeland now goes even further in misinterpreting and twisting Scriptures and advancing absurd and ridiculous teachings, all under the banner of Jesus is Lord. The question I have is this: Why did Brother Hagin redefine faith, claim to be visited by Jesus, and establish a new sect of Pentecostalism? In essence, why did he do what he did all those years in his”ministry”? In light of the fact that we cannot believe that what he taught was divine revelation from God, we are faced with 3 alternatives.
1) Brother Hagin intentionally made up his “visitations” and “revelations”, and purposely mislead his flock by teaching ear tickling prosperity/health/wealth/name it claim it messages in order to garner a following who would give him loads of money,
2) Brother Hagin was deceived by Satan, listening to a spirit/spirits other than the Holy Spirit, or
3) Brother Hagin had some sort of mental disorder and was delusional, imagining encounters with Jesus, angels and Satan.

I haven’t a clue. God only knows. I have to learn to live with the fact that I may never know.

http://whatisthewordoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/06/was-brother-hagin-heretic.html

Here is an outline analysis of qualities exhibited by the Word of Faith Movement as a whole, which began with Kenneth E. Hagin and his Rhema Bible Training Center and are now being carried on by his son, Kenneth W. Hagin (Kenneth Hagin Jr.), Kenneth Copeland, Gloria Copeland, Joel Osteen, Jesse Duplantis, Paul Crouch, Benny Hinn, Fred Price, Creflo Dollar, Jerry Seville, Leroy Thompson, Mike Murdock, Todd Bently, etc. and many more lesser known preachers on a smaller scale. Of course, not all ministries and churches exhibit every one of the following qualities, but the movement as a whole has and continues to demonstrate many of these qualities. If you attend a Word of Faith or a Rhema affiliated church, carefully compare the following outline with your church, and see how many of these your church demonstrates.
 

1. Generally, a Word of Faith church or ministry is unorthodox, esoteric, and has a devotion to a person or a set of new ideas.
   1. New Teaching – has a new theology and doctrine.
   2. Only True Teaching – often considers traditional religious systems to be apostate and it alone possesses the complete truth.
   3. Strong Leadership – often an individual or small but powerful leadership group holds control of the group’s teachings and practices.
   4. Asset Acquirement – often requires tithing.
   5. Isolationist – to facilitate control over the members physically, intellectually, financially, and emotionally. This is rare.
   6. Controlling – exercises control over the members. Sometimes through indoctrination.
   7. Indoctrination – possesses methods to reinforce the group’s beliefs and standards where opposing views are ridiculed and often misrepresented.
   8. Apocalyptic – to give the members a future focus and philosophical purpose in avoiding the apocalypse or being delivered through it.
   9. Experience – various practices including meditation, repetition of words and/or phrases, speaking in tongues for extended periods of time, and ‘spiritual’ enlightenment with God are used as confirmation of their truth.
      1. Depravation – sleep and food deprivation which weakens the will of the person. This is uncommon, though practiced by a few.
   10. Persecution – predictions of being persecuted, often combined with claiming any opposing views demonstrated against them as a form of persecution.
2. Many have non-verifiable belief systems;
   1. For example, they would teach something that cannot be verified.
      1. That God, or angel appeared to the leader and gave him a revelation.
      2. The members are seeded angels from another world, etc.
   2. Often, the philosophy makes sense only if you adopt the full set of values and definitions that it teaches.
      1. With this kind of belief, truth becomes unverifiable, internalized, and easily manipulated through the philosophical systems of its inventor.
3. The Leader of a Word of Faith Church or Minsitry
   1. Often charismatic and is considered very special for varying reasons:
      1. The leader has received special revelation from God.
      2. The leader claims to be a special messenger.
      3. The leader claims to be appointed by God for a mission.
      4. The leader claims to have special abilities or anointing from God.
   2. The leader is often above reproach and is not to be denied, questioned or contradicted.
4. Group ethos
   1. Usually seeks to do good works.
   2. They are usually moral and possess a good standard of ethical teaching.
   3. The Bible is used.
      1. The Bible, when used, is many times distorted with private interpretations.
   1. Many Word of Faith ministries believe in Jesus as one of their own and redefine him accordingly.

These qualities are not only displayed by many Word of Faith churches and ministries, they are the very qualities that define a cult. Yes, a cult. Unfortunately, according to this outline, I can easily put the Word of Faith Movement, Rhema Bible Church, Rhema Bible Training Center and a good majority of the churches and ministries it has spawned under the heading “CULT”. This anaylitical outline of a cult is found HERE. Over the next few weeks, I hope to expound on these qualities one by one to demonstrate exactly how Word of Faith and Rhema in particular correlate with this list.

A good friend of mine told me a story the other day:

He and wife were students at Rhema Bible Training Center. They didn’t have a car, and they wanted one! They had heard a message about naming what you want, then claiming it according to the promises of God. The light came on. They didn’t have a car because they hadn’t used their faith to get one! So they mustered all the faith they had, then began calling that car into existence. They were sure that they would have a car by the end of the week. Days went by – no car. Weeks passed – no car. Months flew by – still no manifestation of that car! Finally, after more than a year of confessing and believing, his wife now 7 months pregnant with their first child – still no car. He was a bit angry with God now. So he decided to ask Him what was wrong. Why didn’t their faith work? Where was their car? God answered him. He told him that he didn’t NEED a car. God reminded him that they lived across the street from school, from church AND from work. It was a five minute walk to all those places. God even pointed out to him that Wal-Mart was not even a mile away, and they had many friends with cars who often asked him and his wife to go with them to the grocery store. God reminded him that gas prices shot through the roof over the last year, and that with his current salary, he wouldn’t have even been able to afford the gas! Finally, he said that God told him that now is the time for him to have a car.

So, did my friend learn the lesson that God knows best? Did he accept the fact that only God, in His infinite wisdom knows what we really need? Did he realize that the answers to our prayers is sometimes a big fat “NO”, or “No, not yet”? I’ll let him answer that question with the rest of the story…

He told me that the next morning was a Sunday. Pastor Hagin preached a great message on holding on to your faith, like a bulldog. He admonished the congregation with inspiring stories in dramatic tones to never give up on that for which they were believing God. “Never let it go!”, he cried with fists clenched high in the air. My friend and his wife looked at each other, eyes sparkling with excitement. At the end of his rousing sermon, Pastor Hagin told the congregation to stand up and reach out with their hands and grab in faith what it was that they were believing for from God! So, he and his wife did just that. They claimed that car, finally knowing that it was God’s perfect timing. He told me that they realized that it just wasn’t the right time over a year ago for them to have a car, that they had asked God prematurely, then given up on their faith too soon when the car failed to materialize. He went on to tell me that not 5 hours after they claimed that car there in the Rhema church auditorium, a family member called him up to tell him that she wanted to give them her car. Well, that was it. Their faith had worked. They got God to give them a car.

End of the story? Not quite. It was only later that I found out that car came with a catch. The family member had to ditch the car because she couldn’t keep up with the monthly payments, having been recently laid off. So they would have to take over payments. They saw it as an answer to prayer. I’m sorry, but I don’t see it. Instead of thanking God for not giving him what he was asking for because it would have put him in the red financially, instead of realizing that God knows better than we do what we need, instead of accepting that God is ultimately in control, this wonderful friend of mine missed it all. He just didn’t get it. God spoke to his heart and gave him the answer of “why?” – a bonus, I must say, that not many of us get when asking God that question – and yet he missed it. He still put more faith in his faith than he did in the Lord. He thought that it was his faith that got him that car, he just didn’t get it.

In light of that story I pose a question. When we want something or think we need something that we don’t have, why not simply ask God, in His sovereign wisdom, to give us that thing only if He deems it necessary, trusting that He, as our loving Father, knows better than we! In the meantime, why not simply thank God for supplying all our need, and taking care of our daily needs, as He promised in His word, knowing that He knows what we need even before we ask Him! It seems to me that doing that would demonstrate more faith and trust in God than demanding from Him something we want without even consulting His infinite wisdom!

I had a great conversation via email with a pretty cool kid the other day about the question of Job. He seems like he’s on fire for God, but sadly, he is misled. His thoughts are typical of word of faith teaching on Job – absolutely not scriptural.

WARNING: Long Blog Ahead! Give yourself 10 minutes or so if you want to read the whole thing!

It started with a post on his blog – Word of Faith.

I commented on his post,

“Ahh, zeal without knowledge is a dangerous combination…You said, “In fact, no where in the Bible will you find God making some one sick to teach them something.” You obviously haven’t read the book of Job, or about Paul’s thorn in the flesh. Maybe God didn’t actually put sickness on them, but He certainly stood back and allowed it! In fact, God was the one who pointed Job out to Satan to be tested! Be careful young “preacher” that you look into the whole council of God’s Word BEFORE you begin to spout off your “revelation knowledge”. And don’t be such a copy cat. You are practically regurgitating Kenneth Hagin’s words, almost verbatim! I’m not sure what Bible you are reading, but if you believe there isn’t suffering/sickness in the New Testament church, you aren’t reading the real Bible! Speaking of Zen Buddhists, I bet you didn’t know that Kenneth Hagin and the entire Word of Faith movement is a Christianised version of Gnostic/New Age teachings…”you can have what you say”, “your words shape your reality” etc…I would love to talk with you further on this, especially since you are headed off to Rhema. I went there myself, and got into a world of hurt…email me if you are willing to discuss these things…”

He responded via email and on his blog post,

“Adam, my friend, I am always open to a discussion provided both people listen, and respond. You seem to be that type of person. Thank you for your response. Before I try to talk about Job, and Paul’s thorn in the the flesh, I would like to address something you said, and maybe this will clear something up. I do not preach the whole council of God. As a matter of fact, no one does that, because no one knows the whole council of God. As it is, I will preach to the best of my ability, with as much of the council of God operating as I know. This is my best attempt to explain what happened with Job, from another item I am currently writing (not for the blog, but for something else.) Now, with Job, you need to understand a few things that have been taught wrongly, and understand the way things actually happened. Without this proper understanding, you will misinterpret Job, and find that it doesn’t line up with the rest of the Bible. In Job, we find that Satan comes to God, and begins to talk to him. God points out Job to Satan, and many times, we have been taught that God was almost dangling Job out in front of Satan, like a treat to a dog, to see if he would take the bait. I submit to you that God perceived what was in Satan’s mind, and if you change the emphasis in the way you read Job 1:8 you can see what I am saying.

8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?” Now, many times we read this and we try to say, “See, God is pointing Job out to Satan to test him.” However, I would argue, looking at God’s character throughout the Bible, that He would not do such a thing. This would seem to be in opposition to His character. What I think is happening is Satan comes to Heaven, and God sees this plan in his heart, and brings it to light (because light chases away the darkness), and God says to him, (this is my paraphrase), “So, you want to attack My servant Job? There is no one like him in the whole earth, he is a just man, who reverently respects Me and avoids evil at all costs.” God isn’t dangling Job in front of Satan. He perceives that Satan has picked Job out of everyone on the whole, and then God starts bragging on Job, and talking about how good Job is. Reread that scripture again for yourself, and change the emphasis, and you will see that there is at the very least, the possibility that I could be right. Now, you may agree with that, but, you say, “What about the fact that God gave Satan permission to attack Job?” Again, I must disagree. What happened, earlier in the chapter, is that Job would “rise early in the morning” (a Hebrew phrase, meaning to make a new beginning) and offer sacrifices to God, claiming that, “‘It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.’ Thus Job did regularly.” You see here that Job is operating in fear. He was afraid that his sons had cursed God, so Job continually went and made a new beginning before God, out of fear, and that is what opened the door for Satan to attack him. Job’s fear tore down the Blessing wall that God designed to protect Him. God was essentially telling Satan, “I’m not gonna attack him. But, his wall is down, so I cannot stop you. All that he has is yours. (By his choice)”

(That is the end of that writing) You see, the way I read it, by Job living his life in fear, the Blessing wall of protection was down, and even though he had a covenant with the Almighty God, God could not protect him from the god of this world, because Job was operating outside the covenant. God is moved by faith, not fear. Fear is what opens the door to the attack, and no matter the covenant, if you are operating in fear, you are open to an attack. Now, to address Paul’s thorn in the flesh, I will admit, I do not understand it all. I do not claim to understand why it is worded the way it is. However, what I believe I understand, is that God would never send a demon to a person. That would be like sending a dog to guard a steak, if that analogy makes sense. What happened, I believe, is that this messenger from Satan came and attacked Paul, and Paul asked God to take it away. Now, at this point Paul was grown up in the faith, and so God told him, “I am not taking it away, my grace is sufficient for you”, which means the pressure was on Paul. You see, healing is something we receive by grace, through faith. Just like salvation (Actually Mr. Scofield, in his study bible, using the ancient Greek tells us that the greek word sozo, meaning salvation, contains all the redemptive acts including healing.) So, when God says, “My Grace is sufficient for you”, what He is saying is, “I already took it, receive it by faith.” Again, I do not claim to understand this fully, but I do believe that this is what the passage is saying. Hope that helps clear up my points a little bit. I would love to continue this discussion further. (If I do sound like a little Kenneth Hagin, it is probably because my Dad is also a Rhema Grad, and has been preaching this, and seeing the results come to pass for the 21 years I have been alive. Not trying to slam you, just giving you my perspective.) You see, I saw that religious stuff at college, and I didn’t like it. It doesn’t, (in my humble opinion) line up with the Word. And, to comment on what you said about the Word of Faith Movement, I would actually beg to differ. This is, I believe, God’s system and way of doing things. I think that the Zen Buddhists and Gnostic, New Age People, twisted God’s way of doing things. God’s pattern is established in that He calls things which be not, as though they were. (Gen. 1-Creation, through His Prophets). He taught that system to Abraham (about Isaac). I believe with all of my heart that these New Age/Gnostics, and the Zen Buddhists twisted what was the reality God created, and turned it into their false teaching. There may be an element of truth to what they say, which is why it may sound similar, but if you are trying to poison a man, wouldn’t you coat the poison with something that tastes good? Anyways, I hope this does not come off sounding combative in the least. I am trying to make my point without sounding dismissive. I would gladly like to hear what you have to say. Thank you very much brother.”

In Christ,

Dave

My response,

“Hey man, thanks for writing! I love good healthy debate. It is an excellent way to define and refine your beliefs. I don’t doubt that you are a good kid, and on fire for the Lord. That’s good! But, like Proverbs 19:2 says,

You said “Now, with Job, you need to understand a few things that have been taught wrongly, and understand the way things actually happened.” That’s a bit presumptuous isn’t it? To assume that you know the way things really happened? To assume that Biblical scholars who were thoroughly trained in the Bible, and Bible interpreters are ALL wrong about Job? Were you there? Were you with Satan when he approached the throne of God? I think not. There is this little thing called pride, a.k.a. the original sin. Proverbs 11:2 “When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom.”“In Job, we find that Satan comes to God, and begins to talk to him.” WRONG. Satan did come to God, but it was God who began talking to Satan, not the other way around. This is actually a critical point, that God initiated the conversation.“God points out Job to Satan, and many times, we have been taught that God was almost dangling Job out in front of Satan, like a treat to a dog, to see if he would take the bait. I submit to you that God perceived what was in Satan’s mind, and if you change the emphasis in the way you read Job 1:8 you can see what I am saying.“ Of course God knew what was in Satan’s mind! He is God! He is all knowing! The only reason He let Satan do what he did to Job is because God KNEW beforehand that Job would not curse Him, that he would remain loyal to Him regardless of his unbelievably horrible circumstances, and thus shame Satan and bring glory to Himself! Do you really think that there was ever a doubt in God’s mind what the outcome would be? This wasn’t some stupid bet between God and Satan! He sees the end from the beginning! He supersedes time and space! The entire history of the universe, past, present, and future is laid out before God as if it were just a tiny sticky note. This is incomprehensible to us, because we are finite beings. God knew that Job would prove Satan wrong, that Job would glorify God by staying loyal to Him and not cursing Him! God WAS baiting Satan! Because in the end, He was glorified through it all, which is the only purpose for ANYTHING that EVER happens in the entire universe – to bring glory to God!“Now, many times we read this and we try to say, ‘See, God is pointing Job out to Satan to test him.’ However, I would argue, looking at God’s character throughout the Bible, that He would not do such a thing. This would seem to be in opposition to His character.” You can argue all you want. It may seem to be out of character to you, because all you have heard about God is that He is a lovey dovey, benevolent God who never gets angry, but is just sitting up there in heaven twiddling His thumbs waiting for us to ask Him to bless us so He can make us rich and healthy. But it is absolutely futile to argue against the Word of God! God DID do such a thing, and it IS His character to do whatever He wants to! God is not bound by ANYTHING! If He were, than what binds Him would be God, and God would not be God at all, because something more powerful than Him exists. It doesn’t matter if you don’t like it. It is fact. You refuse or are unable to believe it, because you want God to fit into your little box of an idea that you have about Him. It may seem to be in opposition to His character, but He did it, you can’t change Him or what He did, so you’d better change your ideas about Him before you reduce Him to something He is not, and begin teaching a god who is not God at all.“Reread that scripture again for yourself, and change the emphasis, and you will see that there is at the very least, the possibility that I could be right.” I am sorry, I have read and reread Job so many times, and it still says exactly the same thing, each time! It doesn’t change! You can change the emphasis all you want. That’s called twisting the Scriptures. It is a dangerous game.“What I think is happening is Satan comes to Heaven, and God sees this plan in his heart, and brings it to light (because light chases away the darkness), and God says to him, (this is my paraphrase), “So, you want to attack My servant Job? There is no one like him in the whole earth, he is a just man, who reverently respects Me and avoids evil at all costs.” God isn’t dangling Job in front of Satan. He perceives that Satan has picked Job out of everyone on the whole, and then God starts bragging on Job, and talking about how good Job is. Reread that scripture again for yourself, and change the emphasis, and you will see that there is at the very least, the possibility that I could be right.” Why don’t you just rewrite the entire Bible while you are at it! You are not paraphrasing. Paraphrasing is expressing the same message in different words. You are expressing a DIFFERENT message than the original. You are re-wording, not paraphrasing! If this were a book report on Job, I would have to give you a “D” for inaccurate reporting and distorting the original meaning. I cannot gather from your writing the possibility that you could be right. You take a lot for granted. A theory based upon presumption is not a theory at all. It is, at best, a good work of fiction.“Now, you may agree with that, but, you say, ‘What about the fact that God gave Satan permission to attack Job?’ Again, I must disagree.’” Well, actually, I don’t agree. But moving on…you can disagree with the FACT (your word) that God allowed Satan to attack Job all you want to, but again, it is kind of futile to disagree with God’s Word. You said it yourself – it is a fact. Whether you agree with it or not doesn’t change the fact that it is a FACT! If you believe God’s Word is truth, which I’m sure you do, then you MUST believe the entire thing.

“It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way.” I want to warn you – I am very blunt. I am going to tell you what I think, and I’m not going to mince words. Practice what you preach and don’t get offended. You don’t sound combative, just naive and idealistic. I can’t blame you, you are simply a product of your environment. You grew up in the word of faith movement, and that’s all you know. I was like you once, believe it or not. I came to rhema all fired up ready to build my faith and save the world. But then real life set in and I realized that the word of faith teaching isn’t all its cracked up to be. Please forgive me if I sound a bit sarcastic and cynical. I am. I don’t want to douse your fire for God. It is admirable. But you do need more knowledge to compliment your zeal, and you’d better be ready to answer some really hard questions and deal with some very disillusioned and very hurt people should you choose to be a minister within the word of faith movement. I call it a movement on purpose. Its time has almost come to an end. The word of faith movement will become just a tiny footnote on the bottom of a page of a very large book on the History of Christianity. I have seen the word of faith destroy peoples lives. Marriages have been torn apart, children have died, people have literally lost their minds, I know people who have turned completely away from God because of word of faith teaching. I know its not all bad. I know that not all the teaching is wrong. But therein lies the danger. A little error mixed in with the truth is like a little cyanide mixed in with your iced tea. It will still kill you if you drink the tea.

Your response to the Job question does not surprise me in the least. It’s what every word of faith teacher says about it. It’s the same answer every time. “Job was in fear, so God couldn’t protect him, he did it all to himself because he was afraid…” To which I say what a bunch of hooey! You said it yourself, that you have to “re-emphasize” the Scriptures to make it say what you want it to say, because you can’t accept the fact that God will let Satan test your loyalty to Him. If you are going to reinterpret the Bible, then at least be honest about it and don’t call it “re-emphasis”! Call it what it is – reinterpreting!

I am going to address some of your responses, your quotes will be blue.

You said, “Without this proper understanding, you will misinterpret Job, and find that it doesn’t line up with the rest of the Bible.” Really??? Job doesn’t line up with the rest of the Bible??? Don’t forget, Job is one of the books of the Bible! Maybe you could just rip out those 42 chapters from your Bible. Word of faith people HATE that book anyway, can’t explain it. No one would miss it much in those circles!

“What happened, earlier in the chapter, is that Job would “rise early in the morning” (a Hebrew phrase, meaning to make a new beginning) and offer sacrifices to God, claiming that, “‘It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.’ Thus Job did regularly.” You see here that Job is operating in fear. He was afraid that his sons had cursed God, so Job continually went and made a new beginning before God, out of fear, and that is what opened the door for Satan to attack him. Job’s fear tore down the Blessing wall that God designed to protect Him.” Whoa whoa whoa! Let’s back up a bit further, to get the CONTEXT of what we are reading. Job 1:1 “There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was PERFECT and UPRIGHT, and one that FEARED GOD, and ESCHEWED EVIL.” (emphasis added) In Job 1:1-5, the author is PRAISING Job for his holiness and his care for his children! He was taking care of his kids spiritually! The very first verse says Job was perfect and upright, one the feared God and eschewed (shun, avoid and stay away from deliberately; stay clear of) evil. The next 4 verses tell us HOW and WHY he was perfect, upright, feared God and eschewed evil! Are you telling me that the author suddenly switches tunes in verse 5 and tells us what Job was doing wrong?! It’s absurd to think so! It just doesn’t fit the flow of the writing! That is basic Bible interpretation! His offering sacrifices for his children was a holy and upright thing to do! He was NOT acting out of fear. He was acting out of care for his children! If Job was indeed “in fear” and if fear is a sin, then the author wouldn’t have called him perfect, upright, fearing God and shunning evil! He would have said something like, “Job was mostly a good guy, but he was afraid for his kids. Job was so afraid, in fact, that he allowed his fear to turn to sin, which separated him from God’s protection. So, Satan, seizing the opportunity, came before God…” Nope. Not what my Bible says! The only fear Job had was the FEAR OF GOD. It’s your turn to reread those first 5 verses! Tell me I’m wrong!“God was essentially telling Satan, ‘I’m not gonna attack him. But, his wall is down, so I cannot stop you. All that he has is yours. (By his choice)’.” You are again putting words in God’s mouth. A very dangerous thing to do. You should be more careful.“You see, the way I read it, by Job living his life in fear, the Blessing wall of protection was down, and even though he had a covenant with the Almighty God, God could not protect him from the god of this world, because Job was operating outside the covenant. God is moved by faith, not fear. Fear is what opens the door to the attack, and no matter the covenant, if you are operating in fear, you are open to an attack.” You either serve a very weak god, who can’t protect his children even when they are afraid; or a very cruel god, one who WON’T protect his children when they are afraid. Let’s put it in human terms. Say your kid is outside playing when suddenly a thunderstorm roars up and it begins to rain and hail and thunder and lightning. Your kid runs up to the door and bangs on it for you to let him in. He is crying and scared and hurting from the hail and heavy rain. You say, “Uh…sorry kid, I can’t let you in until you aren’t afraid anymore. Can’t help ya! My hands are tied up and I can’t get to the door because you’re scared. I am only moved by faith, not fear. You are in fear. As soon as you quit crying and get in faith, I’ll let you in.” How utterly ridiculous, right?! But THAT is exactly the kind of god you are telling me you serve. (For more on fear, see my blog post on fear and courage) I, for one, don’t want any part of him. I serve a God who is moved ONLY when HE wants to be moved. You are not powerful enough to MOVE the God of the universe. Any god you think you can move is no god at all…For your consideration: Romans 9:14-24¹⁴ What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! ¹⁵ For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”^{f]”>[f] 16} So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. ¹⁷ For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”^{g]”>[g] 18} Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. ¹⁹ You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” ²⁰ But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” ²¹ Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? ²² What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, ²³ and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, ²⁴ even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?You said, “but if you are trying to poison a man, wouldn’t you coat the poison with something that tastes good?” Ah, you are a very smart young man, but it is hard for you to see the forest because of the trees. Think on that for awhile…

So what is the lesson to learn from Job’s story? Maybe we should ask God instead of trying to explain it ourselves…

Proverbs 3:5-8

“Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding;in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths. Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and depart from evil. It will be health to your flesh, and strength to your bones.”

God tells us Himself – in His own words – in nearly 130 verses from chapters 38-41 what we need to know. Read it. God is telling Job and his friends that His ways are beyond our understanding! THAT is the message! You can’t explain what happened to Job. No one can. That is the whole point. God is in control. Job’s response to God at the end of the story is most appropriate:

Job 42:2
¹Then Job answered the LORD and said:

² “I know that You can do everything,
And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.

³ You asked, ‘Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?’
Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.

⁴ Listen, please, and let me speak;
You said, ‘I will question you, and you shall answer Me.’

⁵ “I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear,
But now my eye sees You.

⁶ Therefore I abhor myself,
And repent in dust and ashes.”

Let me ask you a question. What is the difference between a satanic attack and a test from God? I want you to really think about this and let me know what you come up with. (Hint: you can get the answer in Job 1:8-12.)

I would again caution you against adding your own words to the Bible. You ignored what the Bible really said and “explained” what you wanted it to say. God does not look favorably on those who twist His words and add or take away from them…

We will leave Paul’s thorn for another time.

I look forward to hearing from you, Dave.”

Adam                   image

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My Provider, my Personal ATM, my own Genie in a Bottle which art in the business of making me rich beyond measure and subject to moving on my behalf whenever I demand it of You with my faith, Hallowed be MY name among my church peers.

Thy kingdom – all it’s treasures and riches and honor – come to me! Money cometh – to me – NOW!

MY will be done in earth, because you said so in your word. I can have whatsoever I saith!

Give me this day my daily bread – make it white – I don’t like whole wheat. Oh, and a new Mercedes S550 4Matic with ALL the options (just like pastors, after all, God, you are no respecter of persons!) a brand new Lexus for my wife; a brand new 6,000 sq. ft. house with 8 bedrooms, 6 bathrooms, 4 living rooms, 3 full size garages, one GIANT kitchen, an indoor/outdoor pool, a sauna, a tennis court, a basketball court, a gardener, butler and a housekeeper; a brand new $120,000 wardrobe, and $1,000,000 in spending cash for my wife.

And miraculously forgive all of my $66,000 in outstanding credit card debt – miracle debt cancellation cometh – to me – NOW! After all God, I did give $1,000 in faith to Mike Murdock because he said You spoke to him to tell me personally that if I obeyed God and sent in my $1,000 – even if I had to put it on a credit card, that You would give me my 100-fold return!
And lead me not into temptation to doubt your word – I refuse to let thoughts of doubt creep into my mind – satan get behind me!

But deliver me from poverty and lack! For MINE is the kingdom, and MINE is the power to get anything I want out of You, and, of course, God, I will try to remember to give you all the glory. Amen.

image

I created this blog to put my thoughts out there on the Word of Faith movement, ask questions about it, and get feedback by those who support and those who oppose of the movement. I have been in the Word of Faith Movement for almost 15 years now, and I have recently begun to question the soundess of their doctrine. I am not a heresy hunter. I do not hate the Word of Faith Movement. I don’t have any grudges against any Word of Faith pastor. I believe that I, as a believer in Jesus, must rightly divide the Word of Truth, God’s Word. I refuse to believe anything, just because someone tells me it’s true. I have to find out for myself.

I believe that God is drawing us to Himself more than ever before. I believe that more than ever, we as Christians, must be so careful what we choose to believe. We must consider the whole council of God’s Word, not pick out a few verses to fit what we want to be true. There will be those who condemn me for asking questions. I have always been curious and have always asked the question, “WHY?” A lot of people in my life, pastors especially, didn’t like me asking questions. There is nothing wrong with questioning things. It’s the only way to find the Truth.

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http://whatisthewordoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/02/why-i-question.html
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Jesus taught us to pray to the Father, “Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” The Word of Faith more or less teaches us to pray, or more specifically, demand that our will be done in heaven as it is on earth! This directly contradicts Jesus’ teaching. I don’t know how they can justify this with a clear conscience. Word of Faith preachers actually teach that we shouldn’t pray to ask God of anything, but that we should demand our rights of God!

Then they go on to say that actually we are not demanding anything of God, but we are demanding things from the devil! So, we have “progressed” from praying to God the Father that His will be done on earth as it is in heaven to demanding that the devil give us what rightfully belongs to us! Therein lies the danger of the Word of Faith teaching. One doctrinal error leads to another until they are teaching things absolutely opposed to the very words of Jesus. Talk about the blind leading the blind!

http://whatisthewordoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/02/thy-will-be-done.html

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Ask any word of faither what Mark 11:23 says. Ten out of ten will spout it off without hesitation. They know it like they know their name. Ask them what the verse before it, Mark 11:22 says, and I’ll bet you nine out of ten will not be able to tell you. It seems to me that most word of faith preachers put way too much stock in these two verses, Mark 11:23, 24 “Whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” Now I am not saying that these verses are not true. Jesus said it, they’re written in red, of course they’re true.

What bothers me is that by putting so much emphasis on these two verses without tempering it with the rest of the Word of God, word of faith preachers lead and teach their followers to elevate their faith even above God, in essence creating an idol of faith! They imply that it is their faith that will get them a brand new car, their faith that will keep them from getting sick, their faith that will keep every less than ideal circumstance out of their lives. In so doing, they do not give God the credit, who graciously grants us our requests, according to His will. Notice that word, REQUEST. It’s an absolute truth to say that we should believe we receive when we pray, of course we should believe! What is the point of praying if we don’t believe God will hear us?

But we are told to request of God, not demand of Him! The problem with putting so much emphasis and value on faith alone, is that it leads people to make the mistake of putting their faith IN their faith instead of putting their faith in God, where it belongs. What does Mark 11:22 say? Word of faithers would be much better off it they knew…”Have faith in God”.

http://whatisthewordoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/02/faith-in-faith-or-faith-in-god.html

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A well-meaning friend gave my wife this book by Kelly Copeland-Kutz, Kenneth & Gloria Copeland’s daughter. The title of the book is Protecting Your Family in Dangerous Times. I just had to write this blog. The book is riddled with errors, starting with the introduction! I believe Kelly had good intentions writing this book. But we all know the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

In the introduction Kelly says, on page xii “Let me add one final thought before you begin this book. In reflecting on the changes in our lives since we began to plead the blood of Jesus eight years ago, I realized that fear had been eradicated in our family. The blood of Jesus wiped it out! Do you realize that in any battle you face, fear will cause you to lose? In fear, we say the wrong things and do the wrong things. But when you begin to plead the blood of Jesus faith is built up and fear loses its grip on you. In the absence of fear you make the right decisions and you speak the Word of God and victory is yours! I am very thankful to my Jesus, not only for His blood, but also for opening my eyes to real life in Him.” Are we to believe that everyone in her family NEVER experiences ANY fear whatsoever?

Forgive my skepticism. OK, fear is not a good thing, that’s a given. We all face fear many many times in life. God tells us to fear not. But will fear make you lose battles? Lets examine the issue. The definition of fear, according to Websters Dictionary is “an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger.” Hmm, an emotion. Kenneth Copeland states “That doesn’t really matter because fear is not a feeling. It is not an emotion. It is a spiritual force. And although it can and does affect your emotions, it can be in operation even when you don’t feel it.“ 1 So Kenneth Copeland now redefines fear. By the way, that quote is taken from “Faith and Hope: Roadblocks” The whole premise of this ridiculous teaching is, well, let me just quote Kenneth Copeland. “You’ve done everything you know to do. You’ve obeyed the voice of the Lord. You’ve taken a stand of faith. You’ve bound the devil, loosed the angels, commanded, declared and prayed. In your heart you know that you can have victory in this circumstance. Some way, somehow, you can beat it with the power of God. But still, you find yourself trapped in defeat. Instead of being overtaken by the blessings of God, some portion of the curse is clinging to you. It might be sickness or lack, failure in relationships or business dealings. But whatever it is, it is clearly of the devil and it is sticking to you like gum to your shoe. Spiritually, you’re smart enough to realize that God is not your problem. He is on your side. And neither He nor His Word ever fails. You might be tempted to believe the devil is your problem. But, the fact is, you know better than that too. Jesus whipped him completely 2,000 years ago and took away all his authority. The question is: If God isn’t the problem, and the devil isn’t the problem…who is? His answer? He goes on to say, in essence, if its not God’s fault or the devils, then it is obviously your fault!

You have done everything that you are supposed to do, according to the Copelands, to experience heaven on earth, but you are still sick, or broke, or your marriage is still broken or whatever. Of course Copelands teaching could never be wrong, so he has to come up with a reason why his teaching isn’t working! But how could it be your fault? You’ve done everything he told you to do! Conveniently for Copeland, (extremely inconvenient for you) its now because you have fear! You are afraid, even if you don’t feel afraid, well, if you’ve done all the confessing and believing he has taught you but its not working, than you must be in fear. Because he is always right. My God, what bondage to put people in. It maddens me. It sickens me. It is deceptive. It destroys people. I hate it. Lets look at the truth.

What is the opposite of fear? Kenneth Copeland says it is faith. He is wrong. Oh in his twisted mind it is absolutely the truth. He believes that faith is a force, so then, according to him there is an opposite force, and he names it the force of fear. Faith is not a force. Faith is just another word for belief. Let me make that clear. FAITH IS NOT A FORCE. Faith=Belief. Get it? Ask anyone what the opposite of belief is. If they have half a brain (and haven’t been brainwashed by the Word of Faith teachers) they’ll tell you its unbelief, or doubt! I would bet my hard earned money that 99 out of 100 people will say unbelief, or doubt. Duhhh! Why wouldn’t they? Its common sense! No one can logically argue that fear is the opposite of belief. It doesn’t make any sense. Its absurd. What is the opposite of fear then?

Courage. Look it up! Its true! So, lets define courage. Websters says courage is “mental or moral strength to venture, persevere, and withstand danger, fear, or difficulty.” Strength. Persevere. Withstand danger and fear. Question: Would strength, perseverance, and withstanding fear be necessary if there weren’t any fear? Think about it. Without fear, there would be no such thing as courage. Sounds to me like courage is acting in spite of fear, not the absence of fear.

Courage is the moral strength to fight, even though you are scared! Ask any American WWII vet if they were scared going into battle. The honest ones will tell you they were scared shitless. According to Kelly Kutz, well, if they were scared, then they lost battles. Damn, I thought we won WWII! This is stupid teaching. The vets tell us they were scared, but they did their jobs anyway.

THAT is courage. That is heroism. It is foolish and prideful to claim that you don’t ever experience fear or claim that if you are afraid, then you have no faith. Fear is an emotion that warns us of danger. Simple as that. Fear is not a force. God, its that simple. It pisses me off that people make things so retardedly difficult and impossible to achieve. How many followers of the Copelands feel guilty every single time they experience that twinge of fear? I feel for them, and pray God opens their eyes.

http://whatisthewordoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/03/faith-fear-belief-and-courage.html

Oh my God. I can hardly believe what I am reading! If you read my last post, you know I am a little hot about the Copeland’s teaching on fear and faith. I was pointing out a glaring error in Kellie Copeland’s book, Protecting Your Family In Dangerous Times. Well, as I read on in this book, I keep stumbling upon things that make me cringe. I once told a guy that when you read books by Word of Faith teachers, that you have to “chew the hay, spit out the sticks.” He laughed, then looked at me very seriously and said, “Well its hard to eat hay when all you are getting is a mouth full of sticks.” I never forgot those words, how true they are. Before we go on, I want to stress that I am no expert on angels, or the angelic ministry. I believe in them, but they are still a bit of a mystery to me. I am just raising questions, I don’t necessarily have all the answers.

OK, lets get into it. In the first three pages of the book, Kelly relates a story about Nikki, a cousin of hers who was killed in a car accident. A Christian cousin. “Miss On Fire For God” kind of Christian. Kellie writes that she “would never question God by saying, ‘Why did You let this happen?’ Instead she prayed, ‘Lord, I want You to show me how we let this happen. What do we need to do to make sure it never happens again?’ “ She thinks it was her fault her cousin died in that car accident. She goes on to say that she got a revelation from God…is this beginning to sound familiar? She says we are supposed to “plead the blood of Jesus” over our families every morning and every night. Page four: “Pleading the blood of Jesus is the main thing God taught me pertaining to divine protection after Nikki’s death. However, before I go on to share what He taught me about the blood, I want to mention three other truths He taught me that must be operating in your life if your children are to be fully protected.” Did you get that? She said FULLY protected. So the blood of Jesus only partially protects my family? Is there some kind of loophole in pleading the blood that God forgot to close up? (I can see Him now, banging His hand on His forehead, “Dang it! Jesus, get over here! Did you know about this!? Your blood doesn’t FULLY protect people! How did We let that happen!”) So the devil exploits this loophole against those poor souls not fortunate enough to have read Kellie Copeland’s book? What she is saying is that pleading the blood of Jesus isn’t enough to protect your family. You have to do three other things. The first one is to take advantage of angelic protection. We have to “understand and appropriate the angelic ministry.” According to Kellie, angels are our servants. She uses Hebrews 2:5,6 and Hebrews 1:14 to justify this. I don’t know, my Bible doesn’t say angels are servants…it says they are ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation. Maybe you can get servant out of that, but I don’t see it.

She teaches that our words control our angels. They have to do whatever we say. And apparently, that goes both ways, positive words and negative words. Kellie mentions a book by Charles Capps entitled Angels. That book teaches that you can “mess up what they are trying to do for you with careless words of doubt and unbelief.” It also apparently teaches you “how to begin speaking right things so your angels can do what they need to do for you.” This is where it gets rich. Kellie explains, “For example, suppose you keep telling your child, ‘Don’t go out in the street, or a car will hit you.’

Now, an opportunity may never arise in your child’s life to run out in the street at the same time a car is driving past. But if that situation ever did arise, the angels would only be able to act according to the words of your mouth. According to what you’ve been saying, your will is that the approaching car would hit your child, who should have heeded your words and stayed out of the street. Thus, your angels have to fold their hands. They can’t rescue your child or keep the car from hitting him because that is what you’ve been saying.” Let’s be serious. Why would I want to serve a god like that? A god who is bound by every word that comes out of my mouth. Apparently God can’t see or hear past the words that come out of my mouth. He is very limited. He can’t peer into my heart, or even read my mind. He believes every word that comes out of my mouth is literally my will. What a small god. I am more powerful than him. Because I tell my child what will happen to her if she runs out into the street without looking, God thinks that’s what I want, and tells His angels to sit there WITH THEIR HANDS FOLDED, and watch my child get killed by a passing car.

What a cruel god. It grieves me to read excrement like this. I want to cry. I want to yell. What bondage. What fear to put people under. No wonder Kellie thought her cousins death was her fault. According to what she has been taught, and what she is teaching, it absolutely was her fault. I imagine our angels are very sad…

image courtesy of Zee81

http://whatisthewordoffaith.blogspot.com/2009/03/angels-with-broken-wings.html